Pros and Cons for 0w-x0 oil.
05-01-07, 01:20 PM
#16
Super Moderator
Do NOT use a 50 weight oil in your Toyota. You could damage the engine. The first number rating is for start-up and cold weather. "0w", the w is a designation for winter. The other number is for an engine running at operating temp. The problem with using 50 weight oil is the actual size of the molecules. In 50 weight oil the molecules may be too big to get in the very close bearing tolerances. Do yourself a favor and get that oil out of your engine and use only the recommended weight. This is NOT a case of "Bigger is Better"!
Koz
Koz
However, I do agree with you after having run 50 weight for the reasons I described above. Cost me major MPG and power.
I can tell you that the 0W30 German Castrol I bought down here cost me almost $30 USD a liter!!!! To get the 5W30 Mobil 1 about 5 years ago in Mexico would have cost me $20 to $25 USD a liter...not cheap. 5W50 was a bargain at about $7 a liter.
05-01-07, 04:00 PM
#17
In an emergency, you have to use whatever you have. Regardless of what anybody told you, you are taking a chance using 50 weight oil. I cannot believe anyone at Lexus told you it was OK to use it. It is not worth the risk!
Koz
Koz
05-01-07, 04:18 PM
#18
Lexus Test Driver
Thread Starter
I am approaching my maiden oil change, hence i need to get good knowledge of what is best to use.
At the moment i don't like what's in my car, assumably it's Castrol 5W-30 cos the dealer said they use Castrol. I parked my car under cover in a pretty much enclosed carport but it seems when i start the car in the morning there is a strain on the engine (loudish sound and high revs), and i'm thinking it's due to the cool/coldness but it just doesnt feel right.
I'm pretty sure a 0W-40 would be better as the 0w would give me smoother startups as some of you have said (which i agreed). The only thing i'm abit worry about is the 40 bit, someone said the bigger the number the more gas gets used....that and also Lexus recommends a 30 so...
At the moment i don't like what's in my car, assumably it's Castrol 5W-30 cos the dealer said they use Castrol. I parked my car under cover in a pretty much enclosed carport but it seems when i start the car in the morning there is a strain on the engine (loudish sound and high revs), and i'm thinking it's due to the cool/coldness but it just doesnt feel right.
I'm pretty sure a 0W-40 would be better as the 0w would give me smoother startups as some of you have said (which i agreed). The only thing i'm abit worry about is the 40 bit, someone said the bigger the number the more gas gets used....that and also Lexus recommends a 30 so...
05-01-07, 05:06 PM
#19
Super Moderator
I am approaching my maiden oil change, hence i need to get good knowledge of what is best to use.
At the moment i don't like what's in my car, assumably it's Castrol 5W-30 cos the dealer said they use Castrol. I parked my car under cover in a pretty much enclosed carport but it seems when i start the car in the morning there is a strain on the engine (loudish sound and high revs), and i'm thinking it's due to the cool/coldness but it just doesnt feel right.
I'm pretty sure a 0W-40 would be better as the 0w would give me smoother startups as some of you have said (which i agreed). The only thing i'm abit worry about is the 40 bit, someone said the bigger the number the more gas gets used....that and also Lexus recommends a 30 so...
At the moment i don't like what's in my car, assumably it's Castrol 5W-30 cos the dealer said they use Castrol. I parked my car under cover in a pretty much enclosed carport but it seems when i start the car in the morning there is a strain on the engine (loudish sound and high revs), and i'm thinking it's due to the cool/coldness but it just doesnt feel right.
I'm pretty sure a 0W-40 would be better as the 0w would give me smoother startups as some of you have said (which i agreed). The only thing i'm abit worry about is the 40 bit, someone said the bigger the number the more gas gets used....that and also Lexus recommends a 30 so...
I am not sure if you can get it, but you might try BMW there and see if they have the LL-01 oil in a 0W30. This is the German Castrol 0W30 I was telling you about, but here in Mexico it costs $30 USD/liter unlike $6 USD a liter in the U.S. This oil is like a 30 at cold but as your vehicle gets hotter it works like a 40 weight. Best MPG and performance I have ever had has been with this oil.
Amsoil is also an excellent oil but they don't have a distributor here and I am not sure who their distributor is in Australia.
05-02-07, 06:23 AM
#20
The second number rating determines the base oil that is used in the oil. Then chemicals are used to determine the "w" (winter rating) rating. The base oil is based on the ACTUAL size of the oil molecules. The manufacture determines the base oil weight by the tolerances in the engine. Too big or too small of a base oil may not provide adequate protection. Toyota has determined the base oil should be 20/30. Using a 40/50 weight oil will NOT give you any advantages, it may in-fact cause problems. If you look at the spec sheets on most of the top brand synthetic 0/5w-20/30 oils you will see that they provide a extremely wide range of protection. NO petroleum based oil comes close, not even 50 weight oil. Again, NO 40/50 weight (NONE) is going to provide better protection and there is a possibility of actually causing problems. The 40/50 weight oils have larger molecules that may not be able to get into the bearings. Why use oil that doesn't provide a better range against thermal breakdown, takes more time to circulate in a cold engine (# 1 cause of engine wear), reduces mpg, and can possibly damage to your engine?
NO matter where you live, you should be using 1 of these oils;
0w-20
5w-20
0w-30
5w-30
10w-30
I recommend a pure synthetic 0w-20.
Koz.
NO matter where you live, you should be using 1 of these oils;
0w-20
5w-20
0w-30
5w-30
10w-30
I recommend a pure synthetic 0w-20.
Koz.
05-02-07, 07:24 AM
#21
Super Moderator
The second number rating determines the base oil that is used in the oil. Then chemicals are used to determine the "w" (winter rating) rating. The base oil is based on the ACTUAL size of the oil molecules. The manufacture determines the base oil weight by the tolerances in the engine. Too big or too small of a base oil may not provide adequate protection. Toyota has determined the base oil should be 20/30. Using a 40/50 weight oil will NOT give you any advantages, it may in-fact cause problems. If you look at the spec sheets on most of the top brand synthetic 0/5w-20/30 oils you will see that they provide a extremely wide range of protection. NO petroleum based oil comes close, not even 50 weight oil. Again, NO 40/50 weight (NONE) is going to provide better protection and there is a possibility of actually causing problems. The 40/50 weight oils have larger molecules that may not be able to get into the bearings. Why use oil that doesn't provide a better range against thermal breakdown, takes more time to circulate in a cold engine (# 1 cause of engine wear), reduces mpg, and can possibly damage to your engine?
NO matter where you live, you should be using 1 of these oils;
0w-20
5w-20
0w-30
5w-30
10w-30
I recommend a pure synthetic 0w-20.
Koz.
NO matter where you live, you should be using 1 of these oils;
0w-20
5w-20
0w-30
5w-30
10w-30
I recommend a pure synthetic 0w-20.
Koz.
You are also correct that it has to be a pure synthetic, a true Wx.
However, if you add in some factors heat/cold, elevation (I am at 7,000+ feet), 100,000+ mileage (of which I don't think any 2nd gen IS is at yet) and even racing, 20 or 30 are still doable, but they will shear a lot quicker with certain factors. The only difference with shearing will be that you will have to change the oil more often. As I said earlier, German Castrol 0W30
05-02-07, 07:38 AM
#22
Multi-grade motor oil
The temperature range the oil is exposed to in most vehicles can be wide, ranging from cold ambient temperatures in the winter before the vehicle is started up to hot operating temperatures when the vehicle is fully warmed up in hot summer weather. A specific oil will have high viscosity when cold and a low viscosity at the engines operating temperature. The difference in viscosities for any single-grade oil is too large between the extremes of temperature. To bring the difference in viscosities closer together, special polymer additives called viscosity index improvers are added to the oil. These additives make the oil a multi-grade motor oil. The idea is to cause the multi-grade oil to have the viscosity of the base number when cold and the viscosity of second number when hot. The viscosity of a multi-grade oil still varies logarithmically with temperature, but the slope representing the change is lessened. This slope representing the change with temperature depends on the nature and amount of the additives to the base oil.
The API/SAE designation for multi-grade oils includes two grade numbers; for example, 10W-30 designates a common multi-grade oil. The first number associated with the W (again 'W' is for Winter, not Weight) is not rated at any single temperature. The "10W" means that this oil can be pumped by your engine as well as a single-grade SAE 10 oil can be pumped. "5W" can be pumped at a lower temperature than "10W". "0W" can be pumped at a lower temperature than "5W", and thins less at temperatures above 99°C (210°F). The second number, 30, means that the viscosity of this multi-grade oil at 100°C (212°F) operating temperature corresponds to the viscosity of a single-grade 30 oil at same temperature. The governing SAE standard is called SAE J300. The motor oil grade and viscosity to be used in a given vehicle is specified by the manufacturer of the vehicle.
Many new vehicles are marked to use 5W-20 oil (Honda, Ford and more recently Toyota). Some ultra fuel efficient and hybrid vehicles are marked to use 0W-20 oil.
Many synthetic motor oils are rated as if they were a multi-grade motor oil containing a polymer-additive because they have the broad temperature range of polymer-enhanced oils but those polymers are not actually present. Thermal breakdown of the polymer-enhanced products can occur at high temperatures and can contribute to 'carbon build-up.'
The temperature range the oil is exposed to in most vehicles can be wide, ranging from cold ambient temperatures in the winter before the vehicle is started up to hot operating temperatures when the vehicle is fully warmed up in hot summer weather. A specific oil will have high viscosity when cold and a low viscosity at the engines operating temperature. The difference in viscosities for any single-grade oil is too large between the extremes of temperature. To bring the difference in viscosities closer together, special polymer additives called viscosity index improvers are added to the oil. These additives make the oil a multi-grade motor oil. The idea is to cause the multi-grade oil to have the viscosity of the base number when cold and the viscosity of second number when hot. The viscosity of a multi-grade oil still varies logarithmically with temperature, but the slope representing the change is lessened. This slope representing the change with temperature depends on the nature and amount of the additives to the base oil.
The API/SAE designation for multi-grade oils includes two grade numbers; for example, 10W-30 designates a common multi-grade oil. The first number associated with the W (again 'W' is for Winter, not Weight) is not rated at any single temperature. The "10W" means that this oil can be pumped by your engine as well as a single-grade SAE 10 oil can be pumped. "5W" can be pumped at a lower temperature than "10W". "0W" can be pumped at a lower temperature than "5W", and thins less at temperatures above 99°C (210°F). The second number, 30, means that the viscosity of this multi-grade oil at 100°C (212°F) operating temperature corresponds to the viscosity of a single-grade 30 oil at same temperature. The governing SAE standard is called SAE J300. The motor oil grade and viscosity to be used in a given vehicle is specified by the manufacturer of the vehicle.
Many new vehicles are marked to use 5W-20 oil (Honda, Ford and more recently Toyota). Some ultra fuel efficient and hybrid vehicles are marked to use 0W-20 oil.
Many synthetic motor oils are rated as if they were a multi-grade motor oil containing a polymer-additive because they have the broad temperature range of polymer-enhanced oils but those polymers are not actually present. Thermal breakdown of the polymer-enhanced products can occur at high temperatures and can contribute to 'carbon build-up.'
LoL look at the last line!!!!!!
this was taken from Wiki
For a normal street car, Mobil 1 is fine enough.
If you track the car then maybe Redline, Amsoil or Royal Purple would be a better route =P
But I'm sticking to 0w-20
Last edited by nabbun; 05-02-07 at 07:41 AM.
05-02-07, 08:42 AM
#23
I did some research on the Nippon 0w-50 and have found that yes in deed, it is very good oil but it is still a 50 weight oil. In the spec sheet it shows that at 40 and 100 degrees C. it has a viscosity of over double that of a 0w-20. This means that not only are the molecules larger, the viscosity is also double that of what should be used. Nippon does make a 0w-20 but it is not a group IV oil (not 100% synthetic). There was a big debate on Bobistheoilguy.com as to the HP gain claims by Nippon for the 0w-50. In the discussions there is also a consensus that this oil can not be used in 95% of the car on the market today (weight rating is too high).
The fact is that ANY 0/5w-20/30 synthetic oil including the Nippon, is way overkill for the normal daily driver (especially if they follow the recommended change intervals) . So whichever brand floats your boat, your engine will be, more then fully protected. If you are like me and tend to what the best of everything for your vehicles, you may want to use the 100% synthetic group IV 0w-20 from Amsoil. The biggest difference in the better oils is how long you can go between changes.
Koz
The fact is that ANY 0/5w-20/30 synthetic oil including the Nippon, is way overkill for the normal daily driver (especially if they follow the recommended change intervals) . So whichever brand floats your boat, your engine will be, more then fully protected. If you are like me and tend to what the best of everything for your vehicles, you may want to use the 100% synthetic group IV 0w-20 from Amsoil. The biggest difference in the better oils is how long you can go between changes.
Koz
05-02-07, 02:15 PM
#25
Lexus Champion
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Orange County, Ca
Posts: 1,947
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
my previous car required 5-30 oil.
I've put 10-40, 10-30, 5-30.
200k miles later no problems. Some of you guys are halarious of how picky u are.
If I go to walmart and there are all out of 5-30 there is no way im going to drive to the nearest walmart to pick it up. I just grab whats available.
On my IS I havent put anything but 5-30 in there.
I've put 10-40, 10-30, 5-30.
200k miles later no problems. Some of you guys are halarious of how picky u are.
If I go to walmart and there are all out of 5-30 there is no way im going to drive to the nearest walmart to pick it up. I just grab whats available.
On my IS I havent put anything but 5-30 in there.
05-02-07, 06:22 PM
#26
::shrug::
not picky.
maybe they are looking for the best oil for their driving style.
some cars get tracked. some cars don't.
daily drivers that don't see any track time can live with conventional oil at the regular intervals.
other people like to have longer change intervals so they used synthetics.
people who like to hit the track will want to use high performance oils.
on another note, you should be using the proper grade of oil that the manufacturer recommends.
otherwise if there happens to be a problem, and the car is still under warranty, then it won't be your fault =P
It's like driving an Audi A4 1.8T and putting in 87 octane gas every time bcuz it's just gas and it don't matter.
Then the sludge builds up and then you go in to get it fixed and then you end up paying for a new engine
not trying to beat on ya ;p
just be understanding.
Some people just want the best for the things they love
not picky.
maybe they are looking for the best oil for their driving style.
some cars get tracked. some cars don't.
daily drivers that don't see any track time can live with conventional oil at the regular intervals.
other people like to have longer change intervals so they used synthetics.
people who like to hit the track will want to use high performance oils.
on another note, you should be using the proper grade of oil that the manufacturer recommends.
otherwise if there happens to be a problem, and the car is still under warranty, then it won't be your fault =P
It's like driving an Audi A4 1.8T and putting in 87 octane gas every time bcuz it's just gas and it don't matter.
Then the sludge builds up and then you go in to get it fixed and then you end up paying for a new engine
not trying to beat on ya ;p
just be understanding.
Some people just want the best for the things they love
05-03-07, 04:03 PM
#27
Amsoil's not hard to find!!! I order mine online - www.amsoil.com
I know that when I lived in TX, Van's Auto Parts carried it, but not many local shops do. However, if you still wanna deal locally, just look on their website and find a local dealer. I personally just order mine from the online store there at their website. It ends up coming out cheaper than Van's where I used to buy it.
~Joe
I know that when I lived in TX, Van's Auto Parts carried it, but not many local shops do. However, if you still wanna deal locally, just look on their website and find a local dealer. I personally just order mine from the online store there at their website. It ends up coming out cheaper than Van's where I used to buy it.
~Joe
05-22-07, 10:53 AM
#28
6-1. Specifications
Lubrication system
*:5W-30 is an oil that provides optimal levels of fuel efficiency.
Oil viscosity
-The 5W portion of the oil viscosity rating indicates the characteristic of the oil which allows cold startability. Oils with a lower value before the W allow for easier starting of the engine in cold weather.
-The 30 in 5W-30 indicates the oil viscosity when the oil is at its operating temperature. An oil with a higher viscosity may be better suited if the vehicle is operated at high speeds, or under extreme load condition.
Page 384
Lubrication system
*:5W-30 is an oil that provides optimal levels of fuel efficiency.
Oil viscosity
-The 5W portion of the oil viscosity rating indicates the characteristic of the oil which allows cold startability. Oils with a lower value before the W allow for easier starting of the engine in cold weather.
-The 30 in 5W-30 indicates the oil viscosity when the oil is at its operating temperature. An oil with a higher viscosity may be better suited if the vehicle is operated at high speeds, or under extreme load condition.
Page 384
Taken from the Owner's Manual
