Cool/neat features of the IS that you discovered.
08-25-10, 11:12 AM
#122
I understand your point and I'm not undermining the accuracy of your info, just giving another view and underscoring the fundamental fact that Lexus does categorize packages A, B or C on the website, without making it clear that these are "default configurations". In fact, it goes so far as to indicate this is where you would build or customize your purchase (no doubt that it is in fact a thinly veiled inventory search).
Whether it is a mistake on the part of the website viewer, or a flaw in the website design, or just a semantic difference one section of the website does very clearly categorize packages as A, B or C (perhaps more or by different names in other zip codes), whereas the other page lists them out in a manner that more closely mirrors the info you've posted.
Anyway I have no interest in debating the definition of a package according to one page of the Lexus website versus another -- in terms of the history of the car itself I am not particularly knowledgeable (and I realize that you are), I am only highlighting facts as one viewing the website at face value might.
Whether it is a mistake on the part of the website viewer, or a flaw in the website design, or just a semantic difference one section of the website does very clearly categorize packages as A, B or C (perhaps more or by different names in other zip codes), whereas the other page lists them out in a manner that more closely mirrors the info you've posted.
Anyway I have no interest in debating the definition of a package according to one page of the Lexus website versus another -- in terms of the history of the car itself I am not particularly knowledgeable (and I realize that you are), I am only highlighting facts as one viewing the website at face value might.
08-25-10, 11:30 AM
#123
Mainly it comes down to the fact that Lexus, unlike say BMW, hates the idea of customers ordering their own cars...
They, and toyota in general, operate by deciding on 2 or 3 configurations that a given region will "want" and that's how they ship all their cars to that region. (Try finding a new sport package car on a dealer lot in the southeast region for example... won't happen unless it was a swap from someplace else).
the upside is it simplifies things for the dealer and the company... they know the allocation for, say, South Carolina, will get X cars configured one way, and Y cars configured another, and they build em like that. And they design the website to make it look like that's all you can get too with the build-your-own section that isn't at all what it claims to be.
The dealers like this system too since the don't have to train their salespeople nearly as well (hence why you run into so many who don't even know what their own cars can do or are available with) and it makes it easier to sell cars sitting on the lot since they're all pretty much the same as the ones that'll be coming in next month or the month after.
It SUCKS for the customer though.
Doubly so when he finds out from that other page that you CAN get cars other ways than the 2 or 3 his local dealer gets... but when he tries to talk to the dealer he gets a blank stare.
I got lucky in that I found a competent guy who actually understood how to do a special order, but from my reading those are few and far between.. (and even then it'll be 2-4 months to get your car, IF he does the order right).
Meanwhile over at BMW they're happy to order a car exactly how you want, and get it to you a lot faster too. (not that there aren't other downsides to buying BMW)
So that's basically why Lexus tries its best to convince you that how your local dealer gets a car optioned is how the build option packages actually work... but in the end it sucks for the customer, leading to confusion pre-sale on what they can actually get in a car (and what they might be stuck with that they don't want)... and it often leads to confusion after the fact when people don't really understand what options their car came with.... in that context, saying "My car has package A" doesn't mean anything, since that's a regional term with no universal meaning. Versus "my car has the luxury package" which has a specific, universal, meaning across all dealerships in the country. (though there again the poorly trained dealers kick in, often telling people things like if the car has nav it means it's the luxury package, despite the two being unreleated).
Then to make it even more confusing....cars in Canada are optioned totally differently from the ones in the US! (you can even get cloth interior there)... and then European and JDM cars different again (auto folding side mirrors for example... or the windows rolling UP with the remote)
They, and toyota in general, operate by deciding on 2 or 3 configurations that a given region will "want" and that's how they ship all their cars to that region. (Try finding a new sport package car on a dealer lot in the southeast region for example... won't happen unless it was a swap from someplace else).
the upside is it simplifies things for the dealer and the company... they know the allocation for, say, South Carolina, will get X cars configured one way, and Y cars configured another, and they build em like that. And they design the website to make it look like that's all you can get too with the build-your-own section that isn't at all what it claims to be.
The dealers like this system too since the don't have to train their salespeople nearly as well (hence why you run into so many who don't even know what their own cars can do or are available with) and it makes it easier to sell cars sitting on the lot since they're all pretty much the same as the ones that'll be coming in next month or the month after.
It SUCKS for the customer though.
Doubly so when he finds out from that other page that you CAN get cars other ways than the 2 or 3 his local dealer gets... but when he tries to talk to the dealer he gets a blank stare.
I got lucky in that I found a competent guy who actually understood how to do a special order, but from my reading those are few and far between.. (and even then it'll be 2-4 months to get your car, IF he does the order right).
Meanwhile over at BMW they're happy to order a car exactly how you want, and get it to you a lot faster too. (not that there aren't other downsides to buying BMW)
So that's basically why Lexus tries its best to convince you that how your local dealer gets a car optioned is how the build option packages actually work... but in the end it sucks for the customer, leading to confusion pre-sale on what they can actually get in a car (and what they might be stuck with that they don't want)... and it often leads to confusion after the fact when people don't really understand what options their car came with.... in that context, saying "My car has package A" doesn't mean anything, since that's a regional term with no universal meaning. Versus "my car has the luxury package" which has a specific, universal, meaning across all dealerships in the country. (though there again the poorly trained dealers kick in, often telling people things like if the car has nav it means it's the luxury package, despite the two being unreleated).
Then to make it even more confusing....cars in Canada are optioned totally differently from the ones in the US! (you can even get cloth interior there)... and then European and JDM cars different again (auto folding side mirrors for example... or the windows rolling UP with the remote)
Last edited by Kurtz; 08-25-10 at 11:33 AM.
08-25-10, 11:58 AM
#124
Well one view is that from a manufacturing perspective, cookie-cutter configurations have some advantages, including production cost (yes that benefits the manufacturer but also benefits the buyer as it tends to result in a lower price, or at least more haggle room between dealer cost and MSRP), less things to go wrong in assembly (reliability advantages) and so forth. Benefit to the dealer is of course simplified ordering and inventory management, less things to think about, and in the service department it is easier / cheaper to troubleshoot a smaller finite number electronics / part config combinations than a larger number of combinations.
I've owned BMWs but never bought new, so from what you've said it sounds like they are more set up toward a made-to-order model than holding cars in inventory and swapping them between dealers to meet demand for a particular car. Although I do remember when I was looking at 3-series, I could not get a 328i in dark grey metallic, only the 335i was available according to the website. Custom orderable? Perhaps, but that indicates they are doing the same thing as Lexus, herding the buyer into preferred configurations. Also, with regard to cost, I found that BMW offered a lot less of the features I wanted on the base model, and had higher markup for the orderable options, making Lexus a much better value for my needs (the end result is that there was really no such thing as a "stripped down" Lex IS.
Lexus isn't the only car maker to limit config options though (or discourage vast customizations).. The same was pretty much true with Nissan when I bought my previous car (Maxima). You couldn't just order a Nav by itself without getting other "luxury" options that made the additional cost much higher than just the nav by itself should have been.
I've owned BMWs but never bought new, so from what you've said it sounds like they are more set up toward a made-to-order model than holding cars in inventory and swapping them between dealers to meet demand for a particular car. Although I do remember when I was looking at 3-series, I could not get a 328i in dark grey metallic, only the 335i was available according to the website. Custom orderable? Perhaps, but that indicates they are doing the same thing as Lexus, herding the buyer into preferred configurations. Also, with regard to cost, I found that BMW offered a lot less of the features I wanted on the base model, and had higher markup for the orderable options, making Lexus a much better value for my needs (the end result is that there was really no such thing as a "stripped down" Lex IS.
Lexus isn't the only car maker to limit config options though (or discourage vast customizations).. The same was pretty much true with Nissan when I bought my previous car (Maxima). You couldn't just order a Nav by itself without getting other "luxury" options that made the additional cost much higher than just the nav by itself should have been.
08-25-10, 02:22 PM
#125
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Mainly it comes down to the fact that Lexus, unlike say BMW, hates the idea of customers ordering their own cars...
They, and toyota in general, operate by deciding on 2 or 3 configurations that a given region will "want" and that's how they ship all their cars to that region. (Try finding a new sport package car on a dealer lot in the southeast region for example... won't happen unless it was a swap from someplace else).
the upside is it simplifies things for the dealer and the company... they know the allocation for, say, South Carolina, will get X cars configured one way, and Y cars configured another, and they build em like that. And they design the website to make it look like that's all you can get too with the build-your-own section that isn't at all what it claims to be.
The dealers like this system too since the don't have to train their salespeople nearly as well (hence why you run into so many who don't even know what their own cars can do or are available with) and it makes it easier to sell cars sitting on the lot since they're all pretty much the same as the ones that'll be coming in next month or the month after.
It SUCKS for the customer though.
Doubly so when he finds out from that other page that you CAN get cars other ways than the 2 or 3 his local dealer gets... but when he tries to talk to the dealer he gets a blank stare.
I got lucky in that I found a competent guy who actually understood how to do a special order, but from my reading those are few and far between.. (and even then it'll be 2-4 months to get your car, IF he does the order right).
Meanwhile over at BMW they're happy to order a car exactly how you want, and get it to you a lot faster too. (not that there aren't other downsides to buying BMW)
So that's basically why Lexus tries its best to convince you that how your local dealer gets a car optioned is how the build option packages actually work... but in the end it sucks for the customer, leading to confusion pre-sale on what they can actually get in a car (and what they might be stuck with that they don't want)... and it often leads to confusion after the fact when people don't really understand what options their car came with.... in that context, saying "My car has package A" doesn't mean anything, since that's a regional term with no universal meaning. Versus "my car has the luxury package" which has a specific, universal, meaning across all dealerships in the country. (though there again the poorly trained dealers kick in, often telling people things like if the car has nav it means it's the luxury package, despite the two being unreleated).
Then to make it even more confusing....cars in Canada are optioned totally differently from the ones in the US! (you can even get cloth interior there)... and then European and JDM cars different again (auto folding side mirrors for example... or the windows rolling UP with the remote)
They, and toyota in general, operate by deciding on 2 or 3 configurations that a given region will "want" and that's how they ship all their cars to that region. (Try finding a new sport package car on a dealer lot in the southeast region for example... won't happen unless it was a swap from someplace else).
the upside is it simplifies things for the dealer and the company... they know the allocation for, say, South Carolina, will get X cars configured one way, and Y cars configured another, and they build em like that. And they design the website to make it look like that's all you can get too with the build-your-own section that isn't at all what it claims to be.
The dealers like this system too since the don't have to train their salespeople nearly as well (hence why you run into so many who don't even know what their own cars can do or are available with) and it makes it easier to sell cars sitting on the lot since they're all pretty much the same as the ones that'll be coming in next month or the month after.
It SUCKS for the customer though.
Doubly so when he finds out from that other page that you CAN get cars other ways than the 2 or 3 his local dealer gets... but when he tries to talk to the dealer he gets a blank stare.
I got lucky in that I found a competent guy who actually understood how to do a special order, but from my reading those are few and far between.. (and even then it'll be 2-4 months to get your car, IF he does the order right).
Meanwhile over at BMW they're happy to order a car exactly how you want, and get it to you a lot faster too. (not that there aren't other downsides to buying BMW)
So that's basically why Lexus tries its best to convince you that how your local dealer gets a car optioned is how the build option packages actually work... but in the end it sucks for the customer, leading to confusion pre-sale on what they can actually get in a car (and what they might be stuck with that they don't want)... and it often leads to confusion after the fact when people don't really understand what options their car came with.... in that context, saying "My car has package A" doesn't mean anything, since that's a regional term with no universal meaning. Versus "my car has the luxury package" which has a specific, universal, meaning across all dealerships in the country. (though there again the poorly trained dealers kick in, often telling people things like if the car has nav it means it's the luxury package, despite the two being unreleated).
Then to make it even more confusing....cars in Canada are optioned totally differently from the ones in the US! (you can even get cloth interior there)... and then European and JDM cars different again (auto folding side mirrors for example... or the windows rolling UP with the remote)
There is also a circular problem with the way packaging is justified... for example, getting a fully optioned IS with a manual transmission is hard, because most sales of ISs with manual transmissions are lower grade - or less "optioned"... Is that because most buyers of the manual are much more price sensitive? or is it because they really want the manual and can't be bothered to wait for several months to actually buy the car they want, configured how they want (which takes months because head office doesn't bring in enough fully jammed manual ISs, because they don't sell). This serves to reinforce the presumption of head office that manual buyers want a base trim level... and so on and so forth.
If only everything was a la carte...
09-23-10, 02:20 AM
#127
Mainly it comes down to the fact that Lexus, unlike say BMW, hates the idea of customers ordering their own cars...
They, and toyota in general, operate by deciding on 2 or 3 configurations that a given region will "want" and that's how they ship all their cars to that region. (Try finding a new sport package car on a dealer lot in the southeast region for example... won't happen unless it was a swap from someplace else).
the upside is it simplifies things for the dealer and the company... they know the allocation for, say, South Carolina, will get X cars configured one way, and Y cars configured another, and they build em like that. And they design the website to make it look like that's all you can get too with the build-your-own section that isn't at all what it claims to be.
The dealers like this system too since the don't have to train their salespeople nearly as well (hence why you run into so many who don't even know what their own cars can do or are available with) and it makes it easier to sell cars sitting on the lot since they're all pretty much the same as the ones that'll be coming in next month or the month after.
It SUCKS for the customer though.
Doubly so when he finds out from that other page that you CAN get cars other ways than the 2 or 3 his local dealer gets... but when he tries to talk to the dealer he gets a blank stare.
I got lucky in that I found a competent guy who actually understood how to do a special order, but from my reading those are few and far between.. (and even then it'll be 2-4 months to get your car, IF he does the order right).
Meanwhile over at BMW they're happy to order a car exactly how you want, and get it to you a lot faster too. (not that there aren't other downsides to buying BMW)
So that's basically why Lexus tries its best to convince you that how your local dealer gets a car optioned is how the build option packages actually work... but in the end it sucks for the customer, leading to confusion pre-sale on what they can actually get in a car (and what they might be stuck with that they don't want)... and it often leads to confusion after the fact when people don't really understand what options their car came with.... in that context, saying "My car has package A" doesn't mean anything, since that's a regional term with no universal meaning. Versus "my car has the luxury package" which has a specific, universal, meaning across all dealerships in the country. (though there again the poorly trained dealers kick in, often telling people things like if the car has nav it means it's the luxury package, despite the two being unreleated).
Then to make it even more confusing....cars in Canada are optioned totally differently from the ones in the US! (you can even get cloth interior there)... and then European and JDM cars different again (auto folding side mirrors for example... or the windows rolling UP with the remote)
They, and toyota in general, operate by deciding on 2 or 3 configurations that a given region will "want" and that's how they ship all their cars to that region. (Try finding a new sport package car on a dealer lot in the southeast region for example... won't happen unless it was a swap from someplace else).
the upside is it simplifies things for the dealer and the company... they know the allocation for, say, South Carolina, will get X cars configured one way, and Y cars configured another, and they build em like that. And they design the website to make it look like that's all you can get too with the build-your-own section that isn't at all what it claims to be.
The dealers like this system too since the don't have to train their salespeople nearly as well (hence why you run into so many who don't even know what their own cars can do or are available with) and it makes it easier to sell cars sitting on the lot since they're all pretty much the same as the ones that'll be coming in next month or the month after.
It SUCKS for the customer though.
Doubly so when he finds out from that other page that you CAN get cars other ways than the 2 or 3 his local dealer gets... but when he tries to talk to the dealer he gets a blank stare.
I got lucky in that I found a competent guy who actually understood how to do a special order, but from my reading those are few and far between.. (and even then it'll be 2-4 months to get your car, IF he does the order right).
Meanwhile over at BMW they're happy to order a car exactly how you want, and get it to you a lot faster too. (not that there aren't other downsides to buying BMW)
So that's basically why Lexus tries its best to convince you that how your local dealer gets a car optioned is how the build option packages actually work... but in the end it sucks for the customer, leading to confusion pre-sale on what they can actually get in a car (and what they might be stuck with that they don't want)... and it often leads to confusion after the fact when people don't really understand what options their car came with.... in that context, saying "My car has package A" doesn't mean anything, since that's a regional term with no universal meaning. Versus "my car has the luxury package" which has a specific, universal, meaning across all dealerships in the country. (though there again the poorly trained dealers kick in, often telling people things like if the car has nav it means it's the luxury package, despite the two being unreleated).
Then to make it even more confusing....cars in Canada are optioned totally differently from the ones in the US! (you can even get cloth interior there)... and then European and JDM cars different again (auto folding side mirrors for example... or the windows rolling UP with the remote)
Yeah we got all features on our european IS. But we will never have 350 and 250AWD. It sucks...
09-23-10, 07:55 AM
#128
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09-24-10, 07:19 AM
#131
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09-24-10, 12:31 PM
#133
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i didnt know about "im hungry"
lol
09-24-10, 01:21 PM
#135
One cool "feature" I discovered is that even to this day I still get compliments on how sick the IS350 looks overall.
Went to get a burger the other night. I'm rolling into this underground garage and there's a group of young guys hanging around outside of the entrance of the garage.
When I walk out one of them goes "damn is that your IS350 that car is sick man".
The IS350 looks particularly stunning at night time with all the lights on. I am impressed with the rather timeless look of the 2IS. Very similar to the e46 BMW, but relatively more rare.
Went to get a burger the other night. I'm rolling into this underground garage and there's a group of young guys hanging around outside of the entrance of the garage.
When I walk out one of them goes "damn is that your IS350 that car is sick man".
The IS350 looks particularly stunning at night time with all the lights on. I am impressed with the rather timeless look of the 2IS. Very similar to the e46 BMW, but relatively more rare.