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People always seem to forget that the 450h is a hybrid, not an EV. The design goal is to get the most out of the gas that you are burning, using the electric motors and battery to run the engine more efficiently. The traction battery is primarily there to spin up the engine for the near instant starts, recover some energy that would have been wasted as heat, and storing power when the more efficient engine speed produces more power than you need to move the vehicle. It's really not there for actually moving the thing.Originally Posted by Droid13
The published output is the sum of the engine BHP and the battery pack energy output capability. 245 for engine + 50 from battery = 295. It is physically impossible for the RX450h to produce 450bhp, not even for 1 ms regardless of rated output of electric motors (and why the AWD version with its extra 68HP electric motor is rated no differently in total output) without trying to "Frankenstein" in a Tesla battery pack...
Looking at the data sheet for a '13 450h, if you do the math, there are 2 motors with a total of 166kW and a 1.872 kWH battery. In theory, if you could dump all the power from the batteries into the motors at their rated power, you would get 6.77 seconds of run time. Of course it is impossible to discharge a NiMH battery at that rate, 166kW, without over heating the thing (which was something you would see in RC car racing in the days of higher power motors and before LiPo batteries.) The sheet lists 37kW as the power output of the battery, which rounds up to 50hp, giving us the 245+50=295hp.
Instructor
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Why Lexus choose 400h for a previous hybrid, and 450H for the last two gens is probably somewhat arbitrary. Especially considering the 4th gen output is higher, and also the same gen GS450h. Both of these should probably have been called RX500h and GS500h if following any sort of engine/motor output pattern. One thing to note about sales people, they are masters of BS and will shovel it anytime they think it sounds good.
I think it makes more sense to consider the "00h" and "50h" as simply different significantly major versions of the hybrid design.
Right. Originally Posted by Droid13
The published output is the sum of the engine BHP and the battery pack energy output capability. 245 for engine + 50 from battery = 295. It is physically impossible for the RX450h to produce 450bhp, not even for 1 ms regardless of rated output of electric motors (and why the AWD version with its extra 68HP electric motor is rated no differently in total output) without trying to "Frankenstein" in a Tesla battery pack.Why Lexus choose 400h for a previous hybrid, and 450H for the last two gens is probably somewhat arbitrary. Especially considering the 4th gen output is higher, and also the same gen GS450h. Both of these should probably have been called RX500h and GS500h if following any sort of engine/motor output pattern. One thing to note about sales people, they are masters of BS and will shovel it anytime they think it sounds good.
I think it makes more sense to consider the "00h" and "50h" as simply different significantly major versions of the hybrid design.
My comments had to do with torque (the twisting power of the engine). Not horse power. You will note that Lexus never published the total system torque, which is what accelerates the car. Not horsepower, which is total system power or amount of "work" achieved.
Please. Someone more articulate than me in engineering explain this.
Driver School Candidate
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My comments had to do with torque (the twisting power of the engine). Not horse power. You will note that Lexus never published the total system torque, which is what accelerates the car. Not horsepower, which is total system power or amount of "work" achieved.
Please. Someone more articulate than me in engineering explain this.
2013–presentGS 450hGWL103.5 L V6 hybrid2GR-FXE8-speed AT218 kW (292 hp) @6400 rpm490 N⋅m (360 ft⋅lbf) @4600 rpmOriginally Posted by MellonC00
Right.My comments had to do with torque (the twisting power of the engine). Not horse power. You will note that Lexus never published the total system torque, which is what accelerates the car. Not horsepower, which is total system power or amount of "work" achieved.
Please. Someone more articulate than me in engineering explain this.
RX hand GS h share the same motor. The differences could easily be explained with performance oriented air intake, performance oriented exhaust, and obviously the better fuel delivery system for the GS. Either way, this SUV scoots and I love it and it gets awesome gas mileage compared to any other SUVs in this class. I was surprised to read "subpar acceleration" as a con to the RX hybrid.
Instructor
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RX hand GS h share the same motor. The differences could easily be explained with performance oriented air intake, performance oriented exhaust, and obviously the better fuel delivery system for the GS. Either way, this SUV scoots and I love it and it gets awesome gas mileage compared to any other SUVs in this class. I was surprised to read "subpar acceleration" as a con to the RX hybrid.
I know that is the published number. But indulge me if you would, the MG2 produces 335nm of torque at 0 RPM and MG3 produces 139nm of torque also at 0 RPM. 474 nm (or 350 ft lbs) of torque just from electric motors. Where does it all go? The system total output cannot be less than 500 ft lbs. Perhaps the PSD has something to do with the less than stellar numbers.... I don't know for sure.Originally Posted by NillaIce
2013–presentGS 450hGWL103.5 L V6 hybrid2GR-FXE8-speed AT218 kW (292 hp) @6400 rpm490 N⋅m (360 ft⋅lbf) @4600 rpmRX hand GS h share the same motor. The differences could easily be explained with performance oriented air intake, performance oriented exhaust, and obviously the better fuel delivery system for the GS. Either way, this SUV scoots and I love it and it gets awesome gas mileage compared to any other SUVs in this class. I was surprised to read "subpar acceleration" as a con to the RX hybrid.
https://media.toyota.co.uk/wp-conten...RXtechspec.pdf
Lexus Champion
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https://media.toyota.co.uk/wp-conten...RXtechspec.pdf
Might have something to do with reduction gears that are a part of PSD.Originally Posted by MellonC00
I know that is the published number. But indulge me if you would, the MG2 produces 335nm of torque at 0 RPM and MG3 produces 139nm of torque also at 0 RPM. 474 nm (or 350 ft lbs) of torque just from electric motors. Where does it all go? The system total output cannot be less than 500 ft lbs. Perhaps the PSD has something to do with the less than stellar numbers.... I don't know for sure.https://media.toyota.co.uk/wp-conten...RXtechspec.pdf
If you think about it, MG1 is this little motor that sits right in the middle, yet it has enough torque to completely overcome gas engine torque in order to route it to the wheels and MG2.
Droid13
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https://media.toyota.co.uk/wp-conten...RXtechspec.pdf
It doesn't really go anywhere. You're implying that the hybrid system is capable of energizing both electric motors to their maximum rating, it can't. A simple analogy, it's like a hot tub with a 240V pump plugged into a 120V power source. Originally Posted by MellonC00
I know that is the published number. But indulge me if you would, the MG2 produces 335nm of torque at 0 RPM and MG3 produces 139nm of torque also at 0 RPM. 474 nm (or 350 ft lbs) of torque just from electric motors. Where does it all go? The system total output cannot be less than 500 ft lbs. Perhaps the PSD has something to do with the less than stellar numbers.... I don't know for sure.https://media.toyota.co.uk/wp-conten...RXtechspec.pdf
Since all the energy comes from the engine or the battery, to run the motors at full rated capacity means either a more powerful engine or a larger capacity battery is required.
Instructor
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Since all the energy comes from the engine or the battery, to run the motors at full rated capacity means either a more powerful engine or a larger capacity battery is required.
I fully agree with your assessment. I just don't think it's only 360 ft lbs for total system torque. I think it's something north of that. I just don't know how much.Originally Posted by Droid13
It doesn't really go anywhere. You're implying that the hybrid system is capable of energizing both electric motors to their maximum rating, it can't. A simple analogy, it's like a hot tub with a 240V pump plugged into a 120V power source.Since all the energy comes from the engine or the battery, to run the motors at full rated capacity means either a more powerful engine or a larger capacity battery is required.
Driver School Candidate
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"The hybrid is surprisingly quick off the line and there is a lot of power across the rpm range. It weighs nearly 600 pounds more than the most recent RX 350 we tested, which was a front-driver, yet takes only 0.1 second longer to reach 60 mph (6.9 seconds versus 6.8). In longer distances, it's actually faster than that 350, finishing the quarter mile in 15.2 seconds at 92.6 mph, as opposed to the 350's 15.3 seconds at 91.4 mph." Overcoming a 600lb weight disadvantage is huge in drag racing.Originally Posted by MellonC00
I fully agree with your assessment. I just don't think it's only 360 ft lbs for total system torque. I think it's something north of that. I just don't know how much.







