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How is the ES300 Hybrid Ranked in the Lexus Canon?

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Old 12-31-18, 04:13 PM
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forsythia
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Default How is the ES300 Hybrid Ranked in the Lexus Canon?

I am looking at a 2016 fairly low mileage ES300 hybrid which I can pick up for around 27K. Claims 40 mpg in city, one owner, fully 'pre-owned' certified. How does that price sound? Realize this isn't a LS460 but from everything I hav e read this model gets high marks. I got scared off Mercedes and Audi (Mercedes E400 and Audi A8 used) after researching typical repair costs.

Would like to keep my expenditure under 30K for a quality used Lexus, with reliability the most important factor, along with a comfortable ride. Whatever I buy, I will probably keep the car for a long time...

Appreciate any suggestions (finding the right car is turning into a bit of a project)!
Old 12-31-18, 06:36 PM
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satek
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Super reliable. Bought my '13 in '16 fully loaded w/ 60k miles for 25.4k + TTL and I've only done oil changers and tire rotations. My MPG is not quite at 40, I would say I hover around 34-35 mpg with normal driving.

The only features that I would say was worth it are heated steering wheel, blind spot monitoring, parking sensors, and my favorite, the Mark Levinson sound system.

What kind of packages does the one you have?
Old 12-31-18, 06:58 PM
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forsythia
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Originally Posted by satek
Super reliable. Bought my '13 in '16 fully loaded w/ 60k miles for 25.4k + TTL and I've only done oil changers and tire rotations. My MPG is not quite at 40, I would say I hover around 34-35 mpg with normal driving.

The only features that I would say was worth it are heated steering wheel, blind spot monitoring, parking sensors, and my favorite, the Mark Levinson sound system.

What kind of packages does the one you have?
Hey thanks. I am seeing an "all weather" package and "premium package" - nav, semi-aniline leather seats, moonroof and all the other things you mentioned. I don't see any mention of Mark Levinson entertainment system though. I also don't see any mention of air suspension. Says 4 wheel independent suspension. Does this model even come with air? Overall, the price looks reasonable to me. I have (had rather) an air ride on my old ls400, which I loved.
Old 12-31-18, 08:07 PM
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st1800
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No air ride. Mark Levinson not all its cracked up to be.
Buy it.
Old 12-31-18, 08:22 PM
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forsythia
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Originally Posted by st1800
No air ride. Mark Levinson not all its cracked up to be.
Buy it.
Ok, good to know. Will schedule a test drive. The big draw is the mpg. That's pretty great.
Old 12-31-18, 08:26 PM
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I have a 14 ESh. Only problems I have had are that the sound system (radio, phone everything) mysteriously shuts off randomly. Only way to get it going is to shut off the ignition and start again. It is random and infrequent so dealer has not been able to diagnose it. Other problem is that the AC is prone to develop mold which then has to be cleaned by the dealer. A few, but not all owners have had this problem. Dealer says the AC needs to be service every year but I don’t do it. I have never had this problem with any other car.

Other than that it is a joy to own and drive.
Old 01-01-19, 03:49 AM
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Have a 2017 ESh now and a 2013 previously. Never had the first problem with either. J D Power has ranked Lexus #1 in reliability for seven straight years. That is domination. They rank the ES as the most reliable mid size premium sedan. We average 37 mpg with mixed driving. Pure highway trip will average around 42 mpg.
Lexus is ranked the third least expensive to maintain behind it's cousins Toyota and Scion. My maintenance schedule is every 10,000, I get an oil change. Every 30,000 miles the brake fluid needs changing. At 100,000 miles the coolant needs to be changed. The air and cabin air filters take five minutes to change for both.

https://twocents.lifehacker.com/the-...ver-1781639773

I have a friend looking for a 2016 or 2017 ESh. He made two offers on 2016's both with nav and both had the safety options. Neither Lexus dealer would take $32,500.
Old 01-01-19, 11:07 AM
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I have a 2015 ES300h, purchased new and aside from rocks hitting the windshield we have had zero problems with it. We also have an NX hybrid which has the same drivetrain, but adds an electric motor for the rear wheels. My wife and I enjoy our hybrids and we are obviously fans as we are now on our fourth hybrid. With that said, do not be fooled into thinking a hybrid will save you money over the life of the vehicle. You will pay more for the hybrid drivetrain, and since you mentioned long term ownership you will eventually need to replace the main drive batteries (likely between 10 to 15 year point). With the cost of fuel today versus these additional costs of hybrid ownership, you would have to drive well over 100K miles to recoup the cost of a hybrid.

Now on I would argue there is more to like with a hybrid than merely the great gas mileage. We enjoy the quieter drive as the car is often in electric mode at low speeds. We also enjoy the smooth drive as a CVT transmission doesn’t have shift points like a standard transmission. The transmission is the very source of frustration for many drivers as they want that positive feel to the shift. This brings me to another point, if you enjoy spirited driving, you would probably be happier with the ES 350.

So do enjoy your test drive and remember to consider all aspects of the vehicle and not just the mileage (40 is hard to achieve but can be done). I just don’t feel the mileage benefit necessarily makes it cheaper to operate over long term ownership. However, there are enough other benefits that I wouldn’t consider any other drivetrain (well perhaps pure electric).

Good luck with your decision!
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Old 01-01-19, 08:31 PM
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es 350 if you plan to keep it for a long time. With the 300h you lose trunk space, performance, battery replacement etc, if you travel a lot of highway miles then the saving in mpg is not significant.
Old 01-02-19, 02:30 PM
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nsaldanh
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Originally Posted by zes
I have a 14 ESh. Only problems I have had are that the sound system (radio, phone everything) mysteriously shuts off randomly. Only way to get it going is to shut off the ignition and start again. It is random and infrequent so dealer has not been able to diagnose it. Other problem is that the AC is prone to develop mold which then has to be cleaned by the dealer. A few, but not all owners have had this problem. Dealer says the AC needs to be service every year but I don’t do it. I have never had this problem with any other car.

Other than that it is a joy to own and drive.
This has happened on every single LS that I have owned as well. The only fix for it during the warm months is to turn off the AC for at least a minute before you turn off the engine and let the blower evaporate any moisture that's left on the coils. If not the wet coils + any dust on the coil = mold. I live in Florida and this is a very common problem.
Old 01-02-19, 08:57 PM
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Originally Posted by nsaldanh
This has happened on every single LS that I have owned as well. The only fix for it during the warm months is to turn off the AC for at least a minute before you turn off the engine and let the blower evaporate any moisture that's left on the coils. If not the wet coils + any dust on the coil = mold. I live in Florida and this is a very common problem.
I have had Camrys, Altimas, Mazda Mellenias, and none of these cars have had a mold issue. They all had ACs and used in similar environments. I wonder why Lexus is plagued with it. If Toyota can build a Camry without this problem why does it happen with a Lexus?
Old 01-03-19, 06:01 AM
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Don’t know if you are concerned about your CO2 impact on the environment, given all the news about the global warming related catastrophe that humanity may be facing in a couple of generations.

I did did an interesting calculation a while ago. I chose a number of cars and trucks spanning a range of sizes and weights, say a F150, a Camry, an Altima, Explorer and yes ES 350 and ESh. I then got their weights and mpg off the internet from manaufacturers and sites like EPA.gov. Then assumed that each of these vehicles was driven 12,000 miles per year. Then used stoichiometry to determine that a gallon of gas produces 20 lbs CO2. Given this input I came to a very interesting and to me an eye opening result:

Most gasoline cars emit about three times their weight in CO2 every year. Or in other words your gasoline car will emit its own weight in CO2 every four months, if you drive 12,000 miles per year. Think about tthat when you a stuck in bumper to bumper traffic amid SUVs and trucks. The result for the ESh was different. It produced 1.7 times its weight in CO2 every year. It is significantly lower than a gasoline car. I had not done this calculation then but I bought mine because of lower emissions.

Also I don’t find the steady sound of the CVT under hard acceleration offensive. Think about the last time you travelled in an airplane. When those big GE or Rolls Royce engines on a 777 spool up and the airplane accelerates down the runway it has constant sound and thrust. I had a nice chuckle when I thought how funny it would be if the 777 was changing gears during acceleration like a car! It is just what one gets used to.
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Old 01-04-19, 01:34 AM
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Originally Posted by TechNut
I have a 2015 ES300h, purchased new and aside from rocks hitting the windshield we have had zero problems with it. We also have an NX hybrid which has the same drivetrain, but adds an electric motor for the rear wheels. My wife and I enjoy our hybrids and we are obviously fans as we are now on our fourth hybrid. With that said, do not be fooled into thinking a hybrid will save you money over the life of the vehicle. You will pay more for the hybrid drivetrain, and since you mentioned long term ownership you will eventually need to replace the main drive batteries (likely between 10 to 15 year point). With the cost of fuel today versus these additional costs of hybrid ownership, you would have to drive well over 100K miles to recoup the cost of a hybrid.

Now on I would argue there is more to like with a hybrid than merely the great gas mileage. We enjoy the quieter drive as the car is often in electric mode at low speeds. We also enjoy the smooth drive as a CVT transmission doesn’t have shift points like a standard transmission. The transmission is the very source of frustration for many drivers as they want that positive feel to the shift. This brings me to another point, if you enjoy spirited driving, you would probably be happier with the ES 350.

So do enjoy your test drive and remember to consider all aspects of the vehicle and not just the mileage (40 is hard to achieve but can be done). I just don’t feel the mileage benefit necessarily makes it cheaper to operate over long term ownership. However, there are enough other benefits that I wouldn’t consider any other drivetrain (well perhaps pure electric).

Good luck with your decision!
All that really depends on the model, miles driven, gas price, etc. I am getting the 2019 ES hybrid in February. It is $1800 more than the non-hybrid. Where I live gas runs about $3.75 a gallon. That means I'd have to save 480 gallons to break even. I drive 1,500 miles a month. That means it only takes 22 months to break even. Even if gas was only $2.50 a gallon it would still only take me 34 months to break even.

I currently drive an 8 year old Camry hybrid with almost 160,000 miles. If I put the same number of miles on the ES over the time I own it I will use approximately 3,600 gallons of gas. That's compared to the approximately 5,900 gallons I'd use by getting the gas model. Even if gas averaged $2 per gallon that would still be a difference of like $4,500 less in gas over the lifetime compared to the regular gas model. I'll also spend less on brakes.

I totally agree on the CVT point. I love the smooth acceleration.
Old 01-04-19, 05:47 AM
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Originally Posted by jimv1983
All that really depends on the model, miles driven, gas price, etc. I am getting the 2019 ES hybrid in February. It is $1800 more than the non-hybrid. Where I live gas runs about $3.75 a gallon. That means I'd have to save 480 gallons to break even. I drive 1,500 miles a month. That means it only takes 22 months to break even. Even if gas was only $2.50 a gallon it would still only take me 34 months to break even.

I currently drive an 8 year old Camry hybrid with almost 160,000 miles. If I put the same number of miles on the ES over the time I own it I will use approximately 3,600 gallons of gas. That's compared to the approximately 5,900 gallons I'd use by getting the gas model. Even if gas averaged $2 per gallon that would still be a difference of like $4,500 less in gas over the lifetime compared to the regular gas model. I'll also spend less on brakes.

I totally agree on the CVT point. I love the smooth acceleration.
I agree, everyone will need to do their own math based on local fuel prices and miles driven. But for many of us, if based on pure economics, the math doesn’t work out. Our 4 year old ESh has 21K miles. The fuel savings will never pay for the additional cost of the hybrid drivetrain based on our current use of the car. We are OK with that as there are so many other aspects of a hybrid that we enjoy. I just hear many people try to rationalize a hybrid based on the economic benefits, and I wanted to share my perspective on that discussion. I still prefer the hybrid, but long term cost of ownership can actually be higher even after accounting for the improved fuel savings. That was the fact I was trying to convey.
Old 01-04-19, 07:18 AM
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Originally Posted by zes


I have had Camrys, Altimas, Mazda Mellenias, and none of these cars have had a mold issue. They all had ACs and used in similar environments. I wonder why Lexus is plagued with it. If Toyota can build a Camry without this problem why does it happen with a Lexus?
ZES: Maybe it's because you live in Colorado. I did not have this problem when I lived in CT. If I do not do this and leave my car for a week (for instance when I fly out of town and leave the car at the airport for a week) I have to open the windows, run the car for about two minutes to clear out the AC system otherwise the whole car as well as me will smell stale. It took me a while to figure this out. And this has happened on multiple LS 460s and two ES 350s.


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