Sandi_k

OK, so Carmax called, and the used 2013 450h I'd seen online at a SoCal lot made its way up north as requested. So today, DH and I went to look at it.

It looks pretty good - a few chips on the door moldings, some scuffs on the rear bumper. Interior is immaculate. Cushioning on the seats feels good - no hint of the wire frames for the heated/cooled seats poking through. All good!

So then we take it for a drive. Hmmm. Super sluggish from a stop. I try to use Eco Mode, and get the message that the electric motor has insufficient power to be used, and it defaults back to the gas engine. I have DH toggle through the menus, and get to current MPG - it's at 18.7 MPG. We scroll a bit more, and find the fuel consumption going back to new - visualized as a bar graph - in August of 2012 - shows some spikes at 40-100 MPG, but Overall Average is 19.2 MPG lifetime.

This is disconcerting. Why would I buy a hybrid, rated at 28/30, that is getting WORSE mileage than my current non-hybrid RX350?!

Is the hybrid battery shot? Wouldn't there be a Code or Check Engine light or something?

How in the world can it have averaged 19.2 MPG for the past 6 years? And if so, WHY would the first owner not get rid of it sooner?!

Thoughts? Avenues for exploration?

I told CarMax that I wouldn't buy the car unless I had the hybrid battery checked out, and some assurance that it wasn't toasted. Any other ideas of how to explore this?

takeshi74

Lots of possibilities and we can't determine the exact cause(s) for your specific situation. The hybrid system should generate errors if it detects an issue but a good tech would have to rule out any potential technical issues. Take it to a Lexus dealer to have it checked out or to a good independent that can assess a hybrid Lexus.

On top of that, driving style and conditions play a large role. A leadfooted driver can easily get low MPG even on an RX hybrid (or any vehicle). It would be more useful for you to reset the MPG and track your MPG on it to evaluate IMO. That said, if the hybrid battery is low then you probably want to ensure that it's up to a suitable level before tracking MPG or your results will be skewed. FWIW, we tend to get about 24 (best was 27.1) with our 450h and about 17 with the 350 service loaners when we take ours in for service at the dealer.

The ratings aren't going to tell you what you're going to get. They're just for comparison purposes bases on a set of test conditions that do not necessarily reflect real world usage.

You'd have to ask that person. 19 is low IMO but our worst tank was 21.1 so it's not so insanely low that I'd get rid of a vehicle based solely on MPG. Again, driving style and conditions play a large role so you can't base your assessment of the vehicle based on the previous driver's usage.

Droid13

I assume you're referring to the EV mode here. Don't worry about this, it's normal for it not to be available all the time, and you won't be using it much, if at all anyway. It basically only works when the temp is between 72 F and 73F, a light breeze from the NW, 58-60% humidity, and <20% of rain, nearby laughing and playing children also helps, along with sightings. OK, I exaggerate a teeny bit.

Droid13

Make sure engine is warm, reset the average fuel economy, and drive it your normal way and see what it says. An informal test for the hybrid battery, find a nice flat stretch where you can go about 40mph steady keeping the power meter in the first eco band. See if you can keep driving without the engine running or the battery depleting quickly. On a nice flat road, you should be able to go a mile or two on the battery charge before the engine needs to start. It can be tricky though depending on weather, A/C use, etc.

You're right though, 19mpg lifetime is beyond horrible. I've only seen these kind of numbers for brief periods driving 80mph on the highway in sub-freezing weather. But it is possible to suck without the vehicle being at fault, lots of fast highway driving, nailing the pedal to the floor at every traffic light and corner, lots of uphill driving with poor downhill opportunities to make up for it.

Sandi_k

Gotta get to work, but one addition: because it's Carmax, I'm sure their "checkout" of the battery will be in-house. I provided all info for my service manager at my dealership (2 blocks from this Carmax) and they seemed supremely uninterested in having the dealership assess it.

They instead suggested that I buy the car, have it assessed at Lexus myself, and then use the 5 day return policy to give it back if it didn't pass their inspection. I presume I'd still be out the 12% for TTL on the purchase, but they didn't confirm that.

Sandi_k

Thanks, Andy.

mnewxcv

yeah, I would definitely reset the MPG counter and take it on a decent test drive. Use the car like you'd use it, jump on the highway and run a few exits, come back back roads if you want a sense of mixed mpg. The hybrids get better gas mileage in the city traditionally, or in stop and go where the gas pedal isn't being pressed very much.

Rosscoe83

Too many variables to consider/test. I would pass on this one. There are plenty of great ones out there. You don't need to waste your time. Good luck!

tus

28/30mpg is what you would get with normal use, although there is quite a bit of wiggle room defining "normal". Being parked most of the time and only getting taken out for test drives would not be considered normal and easily explains the mileage number you saw.

FYI, the 100mpg you saw was someone playing with the system. What you can do is hit the update on the thing and then drive slow enough for 1 minute, which will set the bar at 100mpg. Once that's set you just hit the update again and it will be stored.

The EV unavailable message is normal. You have to remember its a hybrid, not an EV. The traction battery is not supposed to move the thing for any significant distance, speed, or rate of acceleration.

GSteg

iTrader: (15)

19.2mpg is possible if the owner had a very short commute. I've gotten similar MPG when I daily drove the RX450h for a week. My commute is only 3-4 miles away so the engine never got the chance to warm up (engine running the entire time). Had I gotten the RX350, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't even see 13mpg.

MellonC00

if I were you, I'd pass on the car. I dont' get great mpg on my car (about 25mpg). when mrs. mellonc drives the car with her lead foot, she still gets about 23 mpg. but, it's nothing like 19 mpg. save yourself the headache.

hypervish

I'd say the 19 mpg can be attributed to driving style, but I still wouldn't buy it...because if they were driving it hard enough to get 19 mpg, why would you want to own it? What's to say they didn't turn the car on, and immediately start redlining the engine around the neighborhood without allowing it to warm up, etc. Not worth the headache, you'll find another!

ukrkoz

OK. You do NOT buy a used hybrid without hybrid battery cells state of charge tested. Each single one of them. Carmax, Lexus, Joe Handy around the corner - it has to be done. Or, you are buying a pig in a poke with potential $5K replacement OOP.
As of mpg. It sucks. My 2012 Highlander Hybrid, that is heavier and larger car, averaged around 30. My wife's RX350 averages what your hybrid does. And she just drives.
I'd not buy that hybrid period.
Also, if your commute is mostly short trips, lord save - city - then you simply should not be buying any hybrids.
I spoke. You do as you wish.

ukrkoz

http://www.fuelly.com/car/toyota/hig.../ukrkoz/380466

roy7777

LEXUS Hybrid System Warranty coverage is for eight years or 100,000 miles, whichever occurs first, and covers the following components: Hybrid control module, Hybrid battery and inverter with converter.
BTW, my 2013 RX450h is about 22 mpg.