myLexus007

My brother was shopping for a used 2013 ES300h, then we ran into a great deal on a 2013 GS450h, we need your help.

'13 ES300h - 19,000 miles
'13 GS450h - 42,000 miles

Both vehicles are the same price, not CPO, from reputable dealers (BMW and MB), it was a trade I assumed.

We just wanted the ES300h for the fuel economy and Lexus craftsmanship. But boy, after looking at the GS450h interior, it was day and night (bamboo vs plastic, bigger screen, better interior overall, aggressive exterior etc)

We still like the ES300h fuel economy and back seat leg room a lot.

Anything we should know about '13 GS450h. What kind of a major service approaching that kind of mileage or should be done?



Thanks.

Im2bz2p345

Both are excellent vehicles imho. It seems like everytime that I bring my GS450h for scheduled service, they like to give me a ES300h loaner so that's been my experience with both cars. Anyway, if fuel economy is your biggest attraction from a new car, then you can't beat the ES in terms of the luxury/fuel economy combo. The ES is a surprisingly quick car until about 40 mph, but that's when the GS' larger/more powerful engine really starts to shine - it's like a rocket on the highway when the battery is near full charge.

If you actually want to have "fun" in your car on occasion - i.e. push the engine, corner quickly, want a high end luxury vehicle.. while still getting decent mpg numbers, then the GS hybrid is hard to beat from ANY car (until you get into Tesla territory $$$) since it provides an amazing combination of sportiness, luxury, fuel efficiency, reliability, etc. The car still puts a smile on my face everytime I sit & marvel at the interior (and notice the "small" things Lexus has done to make the car amazing!). I also love to push the car if given the opportunity & I make sure that I'm safe. Lastly, the GSh is a LOT more rare than the ESh if that matters to you. I'm in Austin and I have yet to see another GS hybrid here. I have seen plenty of ES hybrids and both the GS & ES (non-hybrids).

If you really need the extra legroom in the back (i.e. you have family with teenagers or above in age), you want a car for maximum fuel economy, the luxury offered in the car is suitable for you, and you want a "softer" suspension.. then the ES hybrid is hard to beat! Great full size sedan.

You can check this PDF for a maintenance schedule on the GS hybrid (starts on page 47): http://www.lexus.com/pdf/service/MY1...50h_WSG_lr.pdf

I think you will be happy either way you go honestly - it's just a preference of the type of car you're looking for. I'm sure the other GS hybrid owners will be happy to give you more insight if you want. Keep us updated!

~ Im2bz2p345

P.S. - Are both cars fully loaded? Perhaps the options included/not included may have an impact on your decision as well.

Tom450

First, I would see if you can get the 450H CPO'd. If so, then the 450H. I drove the ES300h as a loaner and couldn't wait to get my 450 back! I only have about 16K on my 2013 and no problems and I haven't seen any problems show up on the forums.

myLexus007

As you know 2013 GS450h are rare, finding CPO is hard, and even harder as an affordable price.

Are we looking at a major service expense at 50K?

myLexus007

Thanks for the detailed analysis.

What mode do you usually drive on? What's the MPG.

Currently have an '07 ES350 and I thought the drive is much better than 2013 ES300h. So I kind of don't like the 2.4L hybrid on ES300h. Haven't driven the GS450h yet. Can you feel the CVT like the 300h?

Tom450

Almost all my driving is in normal mode except on the access lanes to the interstate. My overall mpg since I have had the car (22 months) is 31.4mpg, mostly in town. The GS450H in S+ mode is more like my 87 Corvette. The CVT is great, just steady acceleration. You will be impressed!!

myLexus007

I'm leaning toward the GS now.

It's $32,000 OTD on '13 GS 450h with 42K miles. Is that a good price? Can I do better? I think it's loaded with all options except for 19'' wheels and HUD.

I know these vehicle are around $70K MSRP new, but have heard they go as much as $10K-$15K off MSRP.

Im2bz2p345

For a near fully loaded car, I would say that's a fair price. Not sure if you can negotiate the price at all, but somewhere between $30-31K would be a steal if it's a totally clean car. I would make sure it has the luxury package, which was quite difficult for me to find when I was searching for my car. You can tell right away that the car has the luxury package if the car comes with a bamboo steering wheel & the tri-LED headlamps. Another thing to note is if the car says "Mark Levinson" above the hazard button, then it has the optional 17 speaker premium surround sound audio system.

For the hybrid, certified cars (CPO) runs about 3-4K more. If that's not a concern, then seems like you've found an excellent car.

Here is a similar used car that has the options that I mentioned above so it's probably similarly equipped to the car you're looking at. It's priced slightly higher and with slightly more miles.. you're definitely not getting ripped off at that price.

Hope this helps & if you snag her, please share some photos with us! With the car being so rare, there are only a handful of us 4GS hybrid active members.

Btw - I average slightly less than Tom at around 28-29 mpg mixed. I am doing a lot more city driving now than I was previously, so that's why my numbers are not higher. I also like to have FUN with the car, so I don't drive like a grandma with Sport/Sport+ modes often. Lastly, I have had zero maintenance issues thus far (my odo reading is in the same ball park as Tom's) and I have read zero threads about problems on the 4GS hybrid... knocking on wood here... or should I say bamboo? #ecofriendly.

~ Im2bz2p345

myLexus007

LOL, yes knocking on bamboo indeed.

No, it does not have luxury package, no bamboo steering . But it still has the daylight LED, correct? What is tri-LED headlamps? No upgrade wheels

With that said is it still a great price?

Im2bz2p345

Sorry - in my post above, I should have have wrote "bi-LED" instead of "tri-LED".. I always think of the headlamps as being 3 individual LED's since that's what they look like... but basically one LED is for normal driving & the 2 others come on when running high beam. They are also "adaptive headlights," meaning they "move" slightly (up to 15 degrees in either direction) when you are going around a corner/bend.

More info on the headlamps is this thread that I had started back when I was researching stuff prior to purchasing my own car: https://www.clublexus.com/forums/hyb...14-models.html

Btw - all 4GS models have daytime running LED's (below the headlamps). The only difference is the hybrid has the optional bi-LED headlamps.

If the car doesn't have luxury package, it's a better deal at $30-$31 OTD imho. You may want to spend time researching what options are important to you (those which you absolutely must have).. buying the GS hybrid takes time for most people since they are not plentiful. Many of us had to drive great distances to see one and many people (such as myself) got a specific car shipped to us that had everything we wanted. It requires some patience as you may be waiting a few months - I was searching for about 3 months until my car showed up for sale on the other side of the country :P

You can check out my ride by clicking the link in my signature if you want to see my car/read more about my story.

Enjoy & best of luck,

~ Im2bz2p345

WhyNotMe01

I will go with CPO for these hybrid vehicle. With that being said, I will choose GS450h and you should be get the price down due to the mileage.

Tom450

I do not have the lux but the premium with blind spot monitor, parking assist and ML stereo. The GSH also comes standard with more features that the regular GS such as the cold weather package (includes double paned windows for noise dampening), down hill parking brake, sport+. I am sure there more but I can't think of them off hand. At first I missed the bamboo steering wheel but now I like the black leather better because it blends better my grey interior. The 18 way lux seats are supposed to be the most comfortable around but I find the 10 way seats great and very comfortable. I had no need for the rear seat controls or the side shade. I believe the lux also has a better dual air system. I think once you drive the GSH you will find no comparison. The ESH has a 4 cylinder engine and produces with the hybrid system 200 hp while the GSH has the 6 cylinder with 335HP. Night and day difference. Regardless, you can't go wrong with a Lexus.

myLexus007

Thanks for all the inputs everyone!

So Im2bz2p345 , thanks to you, now we want the luxury package lol.

Came and saw the vehicle today, it was everything we expected of a GSh, and it would have been sold, but our expectations just got higher after discussing with everyone on this board. The dealer wasn't even try negotiate and let's say they're not the most friendly either, we didn't feel they wanted our business. So per advice on this board, we will take our time.

We are now looking at this one

http://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/de...7517/overview/

It has everything we wanted, starfire pearl ext., lux package, only miles too high for the price. What do you think is the fair price for this?

We are hooked on starfire pearl ext now (a must), and lux or premium package is a nice to have.

Im2bz2p345

Haha! Sorry my friend - I know that your wallet already hates me, but once you get the car that you want, you'll being grinning like no tomorrow! For the GS450h, the patience will pay off, trust me.

That's a nice looking car you linked to, except it's WAY overpriced imho. I mean the mileage is so high on it (double what you were considering before). Keep in mind that 100K miles, the battery may need to be replaced on the car (as with any hybrid).. that's a pretty heft expense if Lexus does not cover it either fully or partially. From what I'm reading in the past (those who owned the 3GS hybrid), Lexus has been pretty good about honoring their 100K battery warranty even for people that have gone above this threshold.

Anyway now that I know what you're after, I found a much better car for you that should match all that you're looking for: http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-s...ngId=413539606

It's your color of choice, has the Luxury & Premium Packages, has a reasonable amount of miles, and is priced A LOT better given how much less it was driven than the one you linked to. The only problem? It's in Seattle, WA. If you happen to know anyone in the area that could take a look over it for you, it would be awesome. You can also ask all the important question to AutoQuest directly (i.e. does it have a clean title). I would contact that AutoQuest used car dealership and see you can work out a deal. I know that you're in Texas, so maybe try to see if they can offer any discounts off the price or at least ship the car to you at no charge (if you decide to purchase it).

Unfortunately you'll be waiting a good while if you expect a GS hybrid to show up in TX that matches every single one of your desires, lol. I had mine shipped from Cali to TX for the same reason.

Hope this helps,

~ Im2bz2p345

myLexus007

How accurate is KBB pricing? I checked the value for the starfire pearl 86K and KBB said $31K, they got to be kidding right? I know the dealer will use that against me so I'm not sure if I even should try to offer low on that vehicle. Maybe $24K? lol.

As for http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-s...ngId=413539606

I agreed with you, it's a beautiful car. But it's 1500 miles away from me and I don't feel comfortable dealing without seeing it. I've always do a one-way flight and drive it back, but at least I can see the vehicle in-person before hand out the check.

I would do it in a heart beat if it's a Lexus dealer or a reputable dealer (BMW, MB, etc..). Not familiar with Auto Quest dealer.