GS 450h MPG
07-07-12, 01:41 PM
#61
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Why are you so fixated on the gearing?
You do understand that the hybrid's purpose is to save fuel at the low speeds typically encountered in town/city driving?
On the open road/highway, it's simply a 3.5L V-6 engine, which if you're trying to eek out the most in fuel economy, then you need to maintain a steady speed, and lift your foot off the pedal as often as you can.
In respect of the photo I've posted of the 300 just acquired, I stuck it on cruise the whole time and sat at 60-65 on the motorway, with the odd burst of acceleration to 75 to get past the elephant racers (semi's overtaking each other with a 3 mph differential!).
I covered 300 odd miles on half a tank, if the gauge is accurate, and never once worried about what gear it was in - I left it to look after itself in D.
There's info, presuming the same is in the US owner's manual as the UK's, on how to drive an auto - when to self-select a gear using S mode, and so on.
I'd suggest reading it, and taking it in - but it's more about how you operate your right foot, that'll bring the economy up on the open roads.
You do understand that the hybrid's purpose is to save fuel at the low speeds typically encountered in town/city driving?
On the open road/highway, it's simply a 3.5L V-6 engine, which if you're trying to eek out the most in fuel economy, then you need to maintain a steady speed, and lift your foot off the pedal as often as you can.
In respect of the photo I've posted of the 300 just acquired, I stuck it on cruise the whole time and sat at 60-65 on the motorway, with the odd burst of acceleration to 75 to get past the elephant racers (semi's overtaking each other with a 3 mph differential!).
I covered 300 odd miles on half a tank, if the gauge is accurate, and never once worried about what gear it was in - I left it to look after itself in D.
There's info, presuming the same is in the US owner's manual as the UK's, on how to drive an auto - when to self-select a gear using S mode, and so on.
I'd suggest reading it, and taking it in - but it's more about how you operate your right foot, that'll bring the economy up on the open roads.
Our toyota hybrid does not have a manual shift option and hence im very curious as to why Lexus would put that there on the GS450H. The other cars which we have owned which had autoshift option would not allow a driver to leave it in a gear (ie 6th) and drive around town. You had to manually select gears and change gears based on rpms and speed. The 6th gear setting on the GS 450H in sense of set it and forget it is truely unique in this regard.
I am often Hypermiling our Camry to maximize fuel economy and save a few bucks each month. We typically average 38 MGS combined. If we could get near 30 in the GS450H, would make it easier to take the hit on our Volvo and move up. This is why im asking so many questions about the car to be sure that my due diligence was done prior to purchase. It also doesn't help that I have never been in one or driven one before. Might be a case of me purchasing the first one I have ever driven.
So your responses are appreciated.
07-07-12, 06:20 PM
#62
If in reality 4mpg is a BIG difference, then you're on the wrong forum.
Get yourself a BMW diesel, or a lightweight small engine car.
To put this in context, you're worried about 4mpg on a depreciating asset, costing $30K, give or take?
What's your annual mileage?
What's your normal daily journey - mainly freeway or congested city traffic?
Let's be clear about this, when Lexus opted for the hybrid aspect of the 450h, the marketing dept ran with the eco credentials of driving for 2 miles on battery power below 30-35 mph.
That's fair enough, but the reality is the 450h is a 340 bhp grand tourer, designed to give BMW drivers a bit of a fright when they try to show it up on the autobahn!
Since you don't live in Germany, and won't be legally able to hit that sort of speed, then the only plus point of the hybrid part is if you do a lot of stop/start town/city driving.
If you're mainly sitting at 55-70 mph, then the 3.5L V6 is lugging extra weight and reducing your useable boot space.
In that regard, you'd be better off with a much cheaper, low-ish miler '06 300, and using the saving to pay for the extra fuel.
Assuming you buy from a Lexus dealer, then once the 12 months warranty expires (I presume the same exists over there as here when buying from a franchise dealer), will you purchase an independent warranty for another 12 months?
I know at least one 450h has had its batteries replaced (I was contemplating going for a 450h) here in the UK, at a cost of £2000, which I know almost certainly, has had a Lexus contribution, and that car is at 96K.
Don't know the mileage it had at the time, but the impression I got from the independent dealer selling it was that is wasn't all that long ago!
Could you afford $3000 to put them right if yours did the same outside of any warranty you have, and that's assuming the independent warranty covers the hybrid system!
By the sounds of it, probably not, or not without it being a bit of a struggle/burden - but if that's not the case, then the mpg difference shouldn't be of a concern.
Your "dilemma" is very reminiscent of what happens all the time here in the UK - many people buy diesel cars because of the headline mpg figures, which are barely ever achievable, and because it's cheaper on road tax.
Now, the difference in taxing the car each year may be £200-250, but yet for all the miles they'll do at a higher cost per litre, and the car being more expensive over the petrol version, they're blinded by the tax amount, which is such a small amount in the overall running costs.
Then there's the issue of turbos, injectors, DPF (diesel particulate filter - like a CAT - which can become blocked from low revs driving, as is typical round town, and cost the best part of £1K to replace), if the car is pre-owned.
All that goes out the window in their decision making, because they're giving the government £200-300 less each year, and doing their bit for "the environment".
In a nutshell, if you have to worry about whether you'll see 24 or 28 (26 or 30....or....) mpg, you need to really go and have a long hard think if you're wise spending the sort of money it's going to cost to trade up.
Then again, after you've test driven one, you'll think "**** it, I'm having one of these", and agonise over something more productive.
Get yourself a BMW diesel, or a lightweight small engine car.
To put this in context, you're worried about 4mpg on a depreciating asset, costing $30K, give or take?
What's your annual mileage?
What's your normal daily journey - mainly freeway or congested city traffic?
Let's be clear about this, when Lexus opted for the hybrid aspect of the 450h, the marketing dept ran with the eco credentials of driving for 2 miles on battery power below 30-35 mph.
That's fair enough, but the reality is the 450h is a 340 bhp grand tourer, designed to give BMW drivers a bit of a fright when they try to show it up on the autobahn!
Since you don't live in Germany, and won't be legally able to hit that sort of speed, then the only plus point of the hybrid part is if you do a lot of stop/start town/city driving.
If you're mainly sitting at 55-70 mph, then the 3.5L V6 is lugging extra weight and reducing your useable boot space.
In that regard, you'd be better off with a much cheaper, low-ish miler '06 300, and using the saving to pay for the extra fuel.
Assuming you buy from a Lexus dealer, then once the 12 months warranty expires (I presume the same exists over there as here when buying from a franchise dealer), will you purchase an independent warranty for another 12 months?
I know at least one 450h has had its batteries replaced (I was contemplating going for a 450h) here in the UK, at a cost of £2000, which I know almost certainly, has had a Lexus contribution, and that car is at 96K.
Don't know the mileage it had at the time, but the impression I got from the independent dealer selling it was that is wasn't all that long ago!
Could you afford $3000 to put them right if yours did the same outside of any warranty you have, and that's assuming the independent warranty covers the hybrid system!
By the sounds of it, probably not, or not without it being a bit of a struggle/burden - but if that's not the case, then the mpg difference shouldn't be of a concern.
Your "dilemma" is very reminiscent of what happens all the time here in the UK - many people buy diesel cars because of the headline mpg figures, which are barely ever achievable, and because it's cheaper on road tax.
Now, the difference in taxing the car each year may be £200-250, but yet for all the miles they'll do at a higher cost per litre, and the car being more expensive over the petrol version, they're blinded by the tax amount, which is such a small amount in the overall running costs.
Then there's the issue of turbos, injectors, DPF (diesel particulate filter - like a CAT - which can become blocked from low revs driving, as is typical round town, and cost the best part of £1K to replace), if the car is pre-owned.
All that goes out the window in their decision making, because they're giving the government £200-300 less each year, and doing their bit for "the environment".
In a nutshell, if you have to worry about whether you'll see 24 or 28 (26 or 30....or....) mpg, you need to really go and have a long hard think if you're wise spending the sort of money it's going to cost to trade up.
Then again, after you've test driven one, you'll think "**** it, I'm having one of these", and agonise over something more productive.
07-07-12, 07:02 PM
#63
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If in reality 4mpg is a BIG difference, then you're on the wrong forum.
Get yourself a BMW diesel, or a lightweight small engine car.
To put this in context, you're worried about 4mpg on a depreciating asset, costing $30K, give or take?
What's your annual mileage?
What's your normal daily journey - mainly freeway or congested city traffic?
Let's be clear about this, when Lexus opted for the hybrid aspect of the 450h, the marketing dept ran with the eco credentials of driving for 2 miles on battery power below 30-35 mph.
That's fair enough, but the reality is the 450h is a 340 bhp grand tourer, designed to give BMW drivers a bit of a fright when they try to show it up on the autobahn!
Since you don't live in Germany, and won't be legally able to hit that sort of speed, then the only plus point of the hybrid part is if you do a lot of stop/start town/city driving.
If you're mainly sitting at 55-70 mph, then the 3.5L V6 is lugging extra weight and reducing your useable boot space.
In that regard, you'd be better off with a much cheaper, low-ish miler '06 300, and using the saving to pay for the extra fuel.
Assuming you buy from a Lexus dealer, then once the 12 months warranty expires (I presume the same exists over there as here when buying from a franchise dealer), will you purchase an independent warranty for another 12 months?
I know at least one 450h has had its batteries replaced (I was contemplating going for a 450h) here in the UK, at a cost of £2000, which I know almost certainly, has had a Lexus contribution, and that car is at 96K.
Don't know the mileage it had at the time, but the impression I got from the independent dealer selling it was that is wasn't all that long ago!
Could you afford $3000 to put them right if yours did the same outside of any warranty you have, and that's assuming the independent warranty covers the hybrid system!
By the sounds of it, probably not, or not without it being a bit of a struggle/burden - but if that's not the case, then the mpg difference shouldn't be of a concern.
Your "dilemma" is very reminiscent of what happens all the time here in the UK - many people buy diesel cars because of the headline mpg figures, which are barely ever achievable, and because it's cheaper on road tax.
Now, the difference in taxing the car each year may be £200-250, but yet for all the miles they'll do at a higher cost per litre, and the car being more expensive over the petrol version, they're blinded by the tax amount, which is such a small amount in the overall running costs.
Then there's the issue of turbos, injectors, DPF (diesel particulate filter - like a CAT - which can become blocked from low revs driving, as is typical round town, and cost the best part of £1K to replace), if the car is pre-owned.
All that goes out the window in their decision making, because they're giving the government £200-300 less each year, and doing their bit for "the environment".
In a nutshell, if you have to worry about whether you'll see 24 or 28 (26 or 30....or....) mpg, you need to really go and have a long hard think if you're wise spending the sort of money it's going to cost to trade up.
Then again, after you've test driven one, you'll think "**** it, I'm having one of these", and agonise over something more productive.
Get yourself a BMW diesel, or a lightweight small engine car.
To put this in context, you're worried about 4mpg on a depreciating asset, costing $30K, give or take?
What's your annual mileage?
What's your normal daily journey - mainly freeway or congested city traffic?
Let's be clear about this, when Lexus opted for the hybrid aspect of the 450h, the marketing dept ran with the eco credentials of driving for 2 miles on battery power below 30-35 mph.
That's fair enough, but the reality is the 450h is a 340 bhp grand tourer, designed to give BMW drivers a bit of a fright when they try to show it up on the autobahn!
Since you don't live in Germany, and won't be legally able to hit that sort of speed, then the only plus point of the hybrid part is if you do a lot of stop/start town/city driving.
If you're mainly sitting at 55-70 mph, then the 3.5L V6 is lugging extra weight and reducing your useable boot space.
In that regard, you'd be better off with a much cheaper, low-ish miler '06 300, and using the saving to pay for the extra fuel.
Assuming you buy from a Lexus dealer, then once the 12 months warranty expires (I presume the same exists over there as here when buying from a franchise dealer), will you purchase an independent warranty for another 12 months?
I know at least one 450h has had its batteries replaced (I was contemplating going for a 450h) here in the UK, at a cost of £2000, which I know almost certainly, has had a Lexus contribution, and that car is at 96K.
Don't know the mileage it had at the time, but the impression I got from the independent dealer selling it was that is wasn't all that long ago!
Could you afford $3000 to put them right if yours did the same outside of any warranty you have, and that's assuming the independent warranty covers the hybrid system!
By the sounds of it, probably not, or not without it being a bit of a struggle/burden - but if that's not the case, then the mpg difference shouldn't be of a concern.
Your "dilemma" is very reminiscent of what happens all the time here in the UK - many people buy diesel cars because of the headline mpg figures, which are barely ever achievable, and because it's cheaper on road tax.
Now, the difference in taxing the car each year may be £200-250, but yet for all the miles they'll do at a higher cost per litre, and the car being more expensive over the petrol version, they're blinded by the tax amount, which is such a small amount in the overall running costs.
Then there's the issue of turbos, injectors, DPF (diesel particulate filter - like a CAT - which can become blocked from low revs driving, as is typical round town, and cost the best part of £1K to replace), if the car is pre-owned.
All that goes out the window in their decision making, because they're giving the government £200-300 less each year, and doing their bit for "the environment".
In a nutshell, if you have to worry about whether you'll see 24 or 28 (26 or 30....or....) mpg, you need to really go and have a long hard think if you're wise spending the sort of money it's going to cost to trade up.
Then again, after you've test driven one, you'll think "**** it, I'm having one of these", and agonise over something more productive.
But as you are the main one discussing this threat, I might as well respond.
My mileage is currently 18MPG combined on my daily driver which is a 2004 Volvo V70R ( modified). At the time we purchased this car (used), it was an improvement over our BMW X5 which only got 14 MPG's combined. Now the thought of getting 28+ MPG's is really enticing.
I realize that the economies of the fuel savings alone may never justify the cost of moving up in cars. However, I am looking at the GS450H and its qualities other than just fuel economies. Items like quiet cabin, smooth ride, comfortable seats, great sound system, low maintenance, etc. The main downside for me on this is RWD and Small Trunk.
As far as being able to afford it, all our cars are owned outright. This car would also be paid in cash and the Volvo sale proceeds would be rolled into the purchase. This doesnt mean that I necessarily wish to pay for a new main battery or transmission.
Bottom line is that I want the Performance and Luxury. My current car is more performance and slightly less luxury. I also value Fuel economy high on the list of wants. This car seems to fit the bill well. We shall see if my ideal configured car shows up, I might just become an owner.
07-07-12, 07:26 PM
#64
Get to a dealer and drive one, and a standard 350 back to back, then you'll see if the heavier, smaller trunk capacity is worth the extra cost/better combined mpg.
See if you can get them on extended drives - not a quick 5 miles round the block once or twice, that'll not tell you much.
Up and down hills/inclines, town/freeway mix - that should give you a good feel for how each one is likely to perform over a 20-30 mile range of conditions.
See if you can get them on extended drives - not a quick 5 miles round the block once or twice, that'll not tell you much.
Up and down hills/inclines, town/freeway mix - that should give you a good feel for how each one is likely to perform over a 20-30 mile range of conditions.
01-05-13, 05:17 PM
#67
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Newbie here. My 2007 GS 450h will not engage the battery without the engine with it regardless of how slow and subtle I go. Even from a dead stop. Its 20 degrees f out but I still found this extremely strange. This even happens when the engine is warmed up. Any thoughts? Any info is greatly appreciated. Thanks!
01-07-13, 06:22 AM
#68
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Is your heat turned on?
Warm the car, see that the batt is charged then bring the car to a stop. The engine should shut off after about 5sec. Foot off brake and feather the throttle in sport mode (much easier for me to drive on elec in sport). The car should get up to 35-40 on elec before engaging the engine.
This works for my car but all GS hybrids are not the same.
Warm the car, see that the batt is charged then bring the car to a stop. The engine should shut off after about 5sec. Foot off brake and feather the throttle in sport mode (much easier for me to drive on elec in sport). The car should get up to 35-40 on elec before engaging the engine.
This works for my car but all GS hybrids are not the same.
01-07-13, 06:42 AM
#69
Is your heat turned on?
Warm the car, see that the batt is charged then bring the car to a stop. The engine should shut off after about 5sec. Foot off brake and feather the throttle in sport mode (much easier for me to drive on elec in sport). The car should get up to 35-40 on elec before engaging the engine.
This works for my car but all GS hybrids are not the same.
Warm the car, see that the batt is charged then bring the car to a stop. The engine should shut off after about 5sec. Foot off brake and feather the throttle in sport mode (much easier for me to drive on elec in sport). The car should get up to 35-40 on elec before engaging the engine.
This works for my car but all GS hybrids are not the same.
01-09-13, 06:44 PM
#71
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It was because it was not warmed up. Thanks for the replies. I thought it was warmed up because it was to the point of starting up on battery only but I noticed after I drove 20 mins to work it will run on battery only from a stop to about 20mph or if until I push too hard on the accelerator. I guess Im discouraged because Im only averaging 21-22 mph and I just bought this CPO with 48k miles but such is life. Ill tinker with it and also wait for summer to see what it can get up to. Thanks again!
01-26-13, 09:02 AM
#72
in sub freezing temperatures the engine will come on more often to address a few issues:
a) your cold, its incredibility wasteful to convert electricity into heat, waste heat from the engine is a better option. Therefore if your at a red light and the engine is still running then the engine coolant is too cold to provide shut off, to compensate have your seat heaters on and turn off the climate control until the light turns green again.
b) since the battery is cold itself, it limits the amount of amperage you can pull from it to prevent damage to the battery. Like humans the battery needs to warm itself around the 15 degrees C to be able to fully utilize its power without sacrfracing battery life. You can speed the warm up process by jacking your climate control to HOT so that the battery warms up faster. Heated garage is a bonus! This affect both going in EV mode and regen capability so in the cold your friction brakes are used more until the battery is warm enough to accept more current.
that's all for now
a) your cold, its incredibility wasteful to convert electricity into heat, waste heat from the engine is a better option. Therefore if your at a red light and the engine is still running then the engine coolant is too cold to provide shut off, to compensate have your seat heaters on and turn off the climate control until the light turns green again.
b) since the battery is cold itself, it limits the amount of amperage you can pull from it to prevent damage to the battery. Like humans the battery needs to warm itself around the 15 degrees C to be able to fully utilize its power without sacrfracing battery life. You can speed the warm up process by jacking your climate control to HOT so that the battery warms up faster. Heated garage is a bonus! This affect both going in EV mode and regen capability so in the cold your friction brakes are used more until the battery is warm enough to accept more current.
that's all for now
05-15-13, 05:01 AM
#73
i get 9L/100km and i feel like i should be getting 6-7.
In mpg terms 9L/100km is about 26MPG.
And 7L/100 is about 33.6MPG i would be very happy getting that much out of a tank.
and i use only 95 or 98 octane premium fuel
In mpg terms 9L/100km is about 26MPG.
And 7L/100 is about 33.6MPG i would be very happy getting that much out of a tank.
and i use only 95 or 98 octane premium fuel
05-27-13, 07:04 AM
#75
not happy with lexus service
So my mileage is back to where it should be, long story short i had a double service at lexus done, 135000+150000. In that is normal checks and service items.
Clearly one item on my receipt says dismantle brake system and inspect.
for 165000 i took it to my friends they went through it, new discs and pads all round.
The left rear caliper had seized, this was causing me excess friction and stuffing my mileage.
Now i get 6-7 even 4-5 on highway, but city driving is 8-9 still which is good.
Lexus parts wrecker said GS always seizes Left rear, he had 5 right rear calipers but all Lefts sold.
Car is beautiful now, havent done a full tank yet but i will let you know, instead of tank range 550 est now its 650+ so ill see next fill.
Also my battery is showing full most of the time now.
Clearly one item on my receipt says dismantle brake system and inspect.
for 165000 i took it to my friends they went through it, new discs and pads all round.
The left rear caliper had seized, this was causing me excess friction and stuffing my mileage.
Now i get 6-7 even 4-5 on highway, but city driving is 8-9 still which is good.
Lexus parts wrecker said GS always seizes Left rear, he had 5 right rear calipers but all Lefts sold.
Car is beautiful now, havent done a full tank yet but i will let you know, instead of tank range 550 est now its 650+ so ill see next fill.
Also my battery is showing full most of the time now.