biker

You got two problems there:

1. When comparing the 530 and 535 milage figures you have to realize that you are starting from the 530 that has great milage compared to the typical mid sized luxury sedan. It is the lightest sedan in its class and has the highest EPA rating (which is going to get even better with the new I6). The figures you quote between the two are like the EPA ratings - don't really reflect real life.
2. The problem you note are for some electronics made by Audi - virtually the worst brand in quality for that kind of thing. Not typical of a reliable diesel car.
A Euro Accord 2.2 iCTDi recently did a test at the track where it got, this no typo, 90 MPG!!!.

While you will have true tree huggers that will drive a hybrid (I saw a Prius on the road the first time) or fully electric vehicles, Joe Public in Europe already has an answer to the fuel problem of the world and will not fall for the current hybrid craze in the US.

Oh and BTW, a 20% milage improvement is a big deal - look at the marketing of a typical car and most companies make a big deal of single digit % improvements.

rominl

iTrader: (4)

yeah i have to agree with flipside too. from what i heard the hybrid will come a yr after the new GS debut, so in 06 as a 07 model. that's about right

flipside909

I think you're forgetting which market audience is here. The market we're talking about is the US market. Most of us here at CL are not concerned with what's sold or what happens in Europe. We're only concerned w/what's available to us here in the states. In the American market, Diesel engines are neither popular or economical here in the states. Most Diesel users are strictly limited to pickup trucks and big rigs here. The only few companies that offer diesel variant passenger cars here in the states are VW and Mercedes Benz. Diesel cars do get good MPG, but the limited availablity and it's pollution factor is not warranted for American tastes.

biker

Spoken like the typical US mentality car marketing guy. The US consumers are such sheep they would buy just about anything if they were spoon fed enough with positive info. Sales of diesels would go through the roof if all of this negative talk and stereotypical diesel talk went away (without changing the product itself). As MB found out, build them and they will come. If made available once clean diesel is available in 06, I'd venture to guess diesel car sales would rocket past hybrids within a year. In the US, Toyota and to a lesser extent Honda won't like that too much now that they've sunk so much money into the hybrid craze and have few diesels to fall back on if diesels ever get popular.

LexFather

The American market and European market can't really be compared. And speaking of sheep being spoon fed, the #1 reason for Europeans buying cars is Brand and Image.
America-larger roads, cheaper gas,
Europe-smaller roads, more expensive gas

Diesal is still a fuel.A hybrid is just much more advanced technology. I think Toyota has seen the world 30 years from now with hybrids. Diesal is not the future.

The only issue I can think of with a hybrid GS is the car is expensive enough with fuel costs do not affect the owner or family as much as a cheaper car. Not sure if people will NEED an expensive hybrid yet.

flipside909

You only see this through a European standpoint. We see it in an American view. Obviously you don't live here to qualify or base your opinions on both ends. You only see it as Americans this or Americans that. That's what everyone in the world's excuse is. Blame it on us. Diesel is old technology and is not the trend here in the United States whether we like it or not. If you haven't noticed, most car manufacturers are going with cleaner better alternatives like Hybrid technology. So far Toyota is the front runner in that, which explains why other car manufacturers like Nissan, Ford and Porsche have come to Toyota to adopt their technology. Where do you think Toyota got the idea to start a Hybrid technology? With the EPA and CARB setting standards for cleaner vehicles, you can count on the United States being a big influence in that. You really can't speak for us Americans since you are only seeing our view from an external standpoint. That's where you probably feel our point of views are one way and you feel sternly on another.

flipside909

Why thank you! I guess my University degree was put to good use other than work.

biker

Sorry to break it to you filp - I am an American. Just happen to live on this side of the pond - not for much longer.

You nailed it right on the head with the EPA and CARB rules - they write them in such a way as to exlcude diesels. The whole point of the hybrid is to lower fossil fuel consumption - diesel does the same thing in a different way.

If given a choice I probably wouldn't buy either hybrid or diesel - both have extra costs and other negatives compared to a regular gas engine vehicle that outweigh any benefit.

flipside909

Diesel fuel isn't as abundant as gasoline here in the US. EPA and CARB set those standards on purpose to generate more interest in alternative fuels CNG, Electric and etc. Like you mentioned, diesel is not cost effective despite the range you can get with them. Diesel does the same thing, but it's not viable. As hybrid technology becomes more available to the general public, the costs associated with hybrid powertrains will drop. Simple supply and demand. You are an American living overseas, but you have such a negative perception on American views.

But back on topic. This is a discussion on the GS Hybrid. Not a GS Diesel which will never flourish.

fever

Well these "sheep" as you call them have created the greatest and most generous country the world has seen. So you might want to put the international "rip the U.S." Kool-Aid down.

Hybrid technology can, does and will work much better than you believe. What we're seeing is merely the beginning of Gen 2 hybrid technology.

And yes, common rail direct injection has given us the torque we love for diesels. And with cleaner diesel finally coming our way this gives the U.S. more options. Just because Mercedes went the way of the diesel versus Toyota's stronger love for hybrid doesn't mean one is right. You might want to check your bias.

XeroK00L

Thanks to Autospies, we now get a glimpse at the world's first pic of the GS450h.....'s badge. (darn...do they have to zoom in this much?)

Erick G

do you guys think the the Hybrid GS will have extra touches like the Rx400h has compared to the Rx330.. bodystyle wise

LexFather

Hopefully, since Lexus is postioning its hybrids as performace vehicles through marketing.

XeroK00L

Chrome rear light treatment maybe? There's gotta be some extra touches for sure.

that_guy

I think that's just where the light has reflected off the area where the rear lights bend inwards.