Best source for servicing RX 400h
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Driver
Joined: Apr 2024
Posts: 83
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Best source for servicing RX 400h
So, I recently bought an RX 400h. Prior owner got regular servicing from Lexus dealer. and I got the maintenance records Timing belt replaced at 92k, radiator replaced at 127k. Brake pads and rotors replaced not too long ago. TPMS and oil changed at 162k. Maintenace records end then Purchased at 170k. Obviously I need to get the oil changed! I understand that anything with the inverter could cost a lot, but I don't know how to tell if there is a problem with it (I have searched to form, to no avail)
The body is in great shape, and I want to keep up with the maintenance. My question is, should I go to a Lexus dealer or can a good shop familiar with hybrids work? I imagine a dealer will cost a lot more, and if I could do the work myself, I would, but I am literally clueless when it comes to that.
What would you advise?
The body is in great shape, and I want to keep up with the maintenance. My question is, should I go to a Lexus dealer or can a good shop familiar with hybrids work? I imagine a dealer will cost a lot more, and if I could do the work myself, I would, but I am literally clueless when it comes to that.
What would you advise?
Instructor
Joined: Aug 2023
Posts: 886
Likes: 429
From: ID
Unless you're forced to never take a car to a dealership that is out of warrant, this is especially true with one that is that old. Many are under the belief that "since I'm paying such an inflated labor rate that is MUST be a better quality of work", you could not be any more inccorect. At a dealership you will be paying for both parts and labor -
Parts- parts will be charged at no less than list price, often times list+ (my dealership here in Boise charges @20% over list). Those very same OEM parts can be purchased at a significant discount on partner sites found on this site or also Amazon or eBay... sometimes aftermarket is also a good option and thise will be way less than what a dealer will charge you (sometimes aftermarket parts are very subpar so be sure and do search here to see what is advised before going "cheap" - struts are one thing you don't want to go cheap on)
Labor - some disagree with me until they actually look at the receipts but in labor dealers charge "book rate", meaning they charge a set rate, usually in the $125/hr labor charge, Porsche is $300/hr so actual labor rate is almost $1000/hr but this is going off what "the factory book" states it will take. In reality this usually equates to a real labor rate of >@400/hr for Lexus. A good qualified mechanic with the tools they have can do 4 brakes and pads in under 30 mins but the book will like states 2 1/2-3 hours. Example - my good friend who was an Acura master Mechanic did an AC install into a new Integra in 45 mins flat, "the book" stated 4 1/2 hours so that's what they charge... now do you see where you're paying a highly inflated real cost per hour versus book hours? Jaguar charges >$100 to reaplce the air filter on a X150 model, it took me under 3 mins from start to finish with no tools just two snaps, one exmaple but this is commonplace with most every dealership. Dealerships are also taught to "throw parts at the car, at the owners expensive, to see if it resolves the issue, if it does not you still pay for the parts and labor" does that seem fair to you? Most garage mechanics do the very same thing but at a lesser cost. Many on this site do the same. In the end this is a highly costly, very inefficient method of problem resolution but it makes dealers a LOT of money and in most cases the customer is never the wiser. The slang for this is "firing a parts cannon at the problem". A fair local mechanic is usually at a rate of @$75 and in many cases will gladly install OEM parts or use the oil filter and oil you provide them at a far lesser cost this can save youi a LOT of money as you just pay a labor charge.
I personally do not believe that their presumed expertise and quality of work are worth anywhere near a real rate of $400+/hr plus a highly inflated parts costs, I believe customers go there thinking that somehow if they pay these rates they are getting superior workmanship, they are not. I rare ever see any dealer, or garage, mechanic using a torque wrench, I've seen numerous mistakes, I've seen numerous things they double charge on that is simply not far to the customer (example - charging for wheel rotation when doing the brakes, the wheels are already off. Charging full labor rate for water pump when doing a timing belt, the engine is already disassmebled so the water pump takes maybe an additional 5 mins at most yet they are charging several hundred extra labor because "the book" states water pump takes a few hours labor. Service writers are paid commissions and almost never are mechanics themselves, they are paid salesmen coercing customers into things they don't need, not telling them about ways to save money or additional work that shoudl be done then so they have to come back shortly and start more costly work.Most of the time they just read a service advising manual or are going off of rumor they are never "highly trained" nor are they mechanics themselves they are sales guys.
Many cannot or choose not to DIY themselves, undertandab le, but please do not fall for the illusion that dealerships are better or the only avenue for work, finding a quality mechanic that knows your engine, model, or suspension generally is not hard and in almost every case will save you considerable money.
My qualifications for stating these claims - 60 years old been wrenching since I blew my first car's engine at 17 couldn't afford to pay anyone else for the needed work so dove in. I own a RX330 that I do all my own work on both engine and suspension have owned many many cars and bikes over teh years doing engine, transmission, suspension, and electrical work when needed. Was married to a lady, still very close, who worked at the higher levels at a prestigious Mercedes dealership now for over 30 years and I know many of their mechanics (probably over 20 there) giving me an intrinsic view of the inner workings of most all dealerships and are good friends with a few master mechanics at other dealerships. For decades I've done pretty much all my own wrenching on motorcycles and cars for the last 42 years, I do not have a vast tool set just the knowledge that I believe I am no less able than most mechanics I've met and certainly don't believe the voodoo magic that many presume they have therefore not willing to pay a fee rate of $400+/per hour + a highly inflated parts cost too...that is why I'd never consider a dealership. A long-winded, behind the scenes look at taking your car to a dealership
Your Hybrid is not drastically different than the standard model, it has the same engine and pretty much all the same suspension and such the only difference is the added electric components so unless your issue is specific to the hybrid system stick with the above statements to hold true, if it is hybrid related issue check with your local mechainc, some are great at it some hate hybrid and electric systems as they've not been trained or had experience with them then just move on. Your hybrid system should be problem free for a long long time Lexus/Toyota does an amazing job with that. Hope that helps some...
Parts- parts will be charged at no less than list price, often times list+ (my dealership here in Boise charges @20% over list). Those very same OEM parts can be purchased at a significant discount on partner sites found on this site or also Amazon or eBay... sometimes aftermarket is also a good option and thise will be way less than what a dealer will charge you (sometimes aftermarket parts are very subpar so be sure and do search here to see what is advised before going "cheap" - struts are one thing you don't want to go cheap on)
Labor - some disagree with me until they actually look at the receipts but in labor dealers charge "book rate", meaning they charge a set rate, usually in the $125/hr labor charge, Porsche is $300/hr so actual labor rate is almost $1000/hr but this is going off what "the factory book" states it will take. In reality this usually equates to a real labor rate of >@400/hr for Lexus. A good qualified mechanic with the tools they have can do 4 brakes and pads in under 30 mins but the book will like states 2 1/2-3 hours. Example - my good friend who was an Acura master Mechanic did an AC install into a new Integra in 45 mins flat, "the book" stated 4 1/2 hours so that's what they charge... now do you see where you're paying a highly inflated real cost per hour versus book hours? Jaguar charges >$100 to reaplce the air filter on a X150 model, it took me under 3 mins from start to finish with no tools just two snaps, one exmaple but this is commonplace with most every dealership. Dealerships are also taught to "throw parts at the car, at the owners expensive, to see if it resolves the issue, if it does not you still pay for the parts and labor" does that seem fair to you? Most garage mechanics do the very same thing but at a lesser cost. Many on this site do the same. In the end this is a highly costly, very inefficient method of problem resolution but it makes dealers a LOT of money and in most cases the customer is never the wiser. The slang for this is "firing a parts cannon at the problem". A fair local mechanic is usually at a rate of @$75 and in many cases will gladly install OEM parts or use the oil filter and oil you provide them at a far lesser cost this can save youi a LOT of money as you just pay a labor charge.
I personally do not believe that their presumed expertise and quality of work are worth anywhere near a real rate of $400+/hr plus a highly inflated parts costs, I believe customers go there thinking that somehow if they pay these rates they are getting superior workmanship, they are not. I rare ever see any dealer, or garage, mechanic using a torque wrench, I've seen numerous mistakes, I've seen numerous things they double charge on that is simply not far to the customer (example - charging for wheel rotation when doing the brakes, the wheels are already off. Charging full labor rate for water pump when doing a timing belt, the engine is already disassmebled so the water pump takes maybe an additional 5 mins at most yet they are charging several hundred extra labor because "the book" states water pump takes a few hours labor. Service writers are paid commissions and almost never are mechanics themselves, they are paid salesmen coercing customers into things they don't need, not telling them about ways to save money or additional work that shoudl be done then so they have to come back shortly and start more costly work.Most of the time they just read a service advising manual or are going off of rumor they are never "highly trained" nor are they mechanics themselves they are sales guys.
Many cannot or choose not to DIY themselves, undertandab le, but please do not fall for the illusion that dealerships are better or the only avenue for work, finding a quality mechanic that knows your engine, model, or suspension generally is not hard and in almost every case will save you considerable money.
My qualifications for stating these claims - 60 years old been wrenching since I blew my first car's engine at 17 couldn't afford to pay anyone else for the needed work so dove in. I own a RX330 that I do all my own work on both engine and suspension have owned many many cars and bikes over teh years doing engine, transmission, suspension, and electrical work when needed. Was married to a lady, still very close, who worked at the higher levels at a prestigious Mercedes dealership now for over 30 years and I know many of their mechanics (probably over 20 there) giving me an intrinsic view of the inner workings of most all dealerships and are good friends with a few master mechanics at other dealerships. For decades I've done pretty much all my own wrenching on motorcycles and cars for the last 42 years, I do not have a vast tool set just the knowledge that I believe I am no less able than most mechanics I've met and certainly don't believe the voodoo magic that many presume they have therefore not willing to pay a fee rate of $400+/per hour + a highly inflated parts cost too...that is why I'd never consider a dealership. A long-winded, behind the scenes look at taking your car to a dealership
Your Hybrid is not drastically different than the standard model, it has the same engine and pretty much all the same suspension and such the only difference is the added electric components so unless your issue is specific to the hybrid system stick with the above statements to hold true, if it is hybrid related issue check with your local mechainc, some are great at it some hate hybrid and electric systems as they've not been trained or had experience with them then just move on. Your hybrid system should be problem free for a long long time Lexus/Toyota does an amazing job with that. Hope that helps some...
Last edited by Leeper; May 24, 2024 at 07:21 AM.
Thread Starter
Driver
Joined: Apr 2024
Posts: 83
Likes: 22
Thank you SO much for your detailed and informative response. The prior owner was a lawyer and apparently subscribed to the idea that the dealership services were worth what he paid for them. I've never had a vehicle serviced at a dealership, for all the reasons you listed. I am a 67yo woman with no hands-on experience working on cars, although I grew up with car people who insist on telling and showing me what they think I need to know - some of it has actually sunk in. I can look at brakes and brake pads and know if I'm being snookered into buying new ones, and I can change a tire. It's not that I don't have the will to do my own car work, but I lack the skills and the tools, and in some cases, the strength.
You confirmed my suspicions about the cost of work done at a dealership. I prefer to have work done at smaller shops where I know and trust the owner to advise me of issues that might need fixing soon and what to look for when a problem is imminent, or if possible, jury-rig something that will suffice until I can pay for what really needs doing. I appreciate the time you took to answer.
You confirmed my suspicions about the cost of work done at a dealership. I prefer to have work done at smaller shops where I know and trust the owner to advise me of issues that might need fixing soon and what to look for when a problem is imminent, or if possible, jury-rig something that will suffice until I can pay for what really needs doing. I appreciate the time you took to answer.
Instructor
Joined: Aug 2023
Posts: 886
Likes: 429
From: ID
Thank you SO much for your detailed and informative response. The prior owner was a lawyer and apparently subscribed to the idea that the dealership services were worth what he paid for them. I've never had a vehicle serviced at a dealership, for all the reasons you listed. I am a 67yo woman with no hands-on experience working on cars, although I grew up with car people who insist on telling and showing me what they think I need to know - some of it has actually sunk in. I can look at brakes and brake pads and know if I'm being snookered into buying new ones, and I can change a tire. It's not that I don't have the will to do my own car work, but I lack the skills and the tools, and in some cases, the strength.
You confirmed my suspicions about the cost of work done at a dealership. I prefer to have work done at smaller shops where I know and trust the owner to advise me of issues that might need fixing soon and what to look for when a problem is imminent, or if possible, jury-rig something that will suffice until I can pay for what really needs doing. I appreciate the time you took to answer.
You confirmed my suspicions about the cost of work done at a dealership. I prefer to have work done at smaller shops where I know and trust the owner to advise me of issues that might need fixing soon and what to look for when a problem is imminent, or if possible, jury-rig something that will suffice until I can pay for what really needs doing. I appreciate the time you took to answer.
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