Well, my dear HS, it's been a fun year, but think I may be moving on...
03-01-11, 07:24 AM
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Well, my dear HS, it's been a fun year, but think I may be moving on...
After having my HS for nearly ayear, I am thinking ending our affair and move on to something else. While the car has been without major problems, I have to say it has failed to live up to my expectations. I'm not meaning this as a post merely to trash the car (for I know there are many satisfied owners here), but thought I'd share my thoughts for those who might be interested.
After a year of driving (and approximately 12,000 miles), here's my PROs and CONs of the HS 250h.
PROS
Gas mileage: I have averaged 34 mpg in mixed city/highway driving. While this is admirable mileage for a "luxury" car, it isn't as impressive as it seems given that A4s and 3-series are only a few miles less. I think 40+ mpg is expected of a hybrid.
Sound System: I got one of the very few HS's available with the Mark Levinson sound system which I find superb.
Head-up Display: I find this a very useful feature and another "must-have" for my next car.
Interior Design: I like the overall design of the interior with the center "pod" extending between the driver with the very comfortable placement of the mouse-controller which works well.
CONS
Nav System: Toyota's dinosaur hasn't been significantly updated in years and has fallen woefully behind the competition. See this post for an excellent summary of its deficiencies.
Ipod Interface: while I generally like the mouse-controller, the iPod interface is almost unusable at times. Amongst other gripes, if I want to hear something by "Seal", it takes 20 seconds or more to scan through the alphabet and guess where the S's are (given that the screen goes blank while scanning).
Location of AUX/USB, and power ports: Why these aren't hidden in the armrest (or elsewhere) is a mystery. And those cheap, ugly plastic covers with the white writing look like they belong on an outboard motor, not in a luxury car.
Interior Finishes: while the quality of how everything is put together (tight seams, no gaps or squeaks, etc) is Lexus-caliber, I find some of the interior materials to be really cheap. Specifically the door panels, glove box and center console are made of very hard plastic that scuffs easily and just feels cheap. While using plant-based plastics is admirable, it simply isn't luxury. I know some people don't care for wood, but in my luxury car, I'd like to see a bit more of it. The three dolups of wood )door pulls and tiny bit on the drink holder cover) really seem like an afterthought. Also, the leather is a little thin and not wearing particularly well.
Exterior Design: I realize this is totally subjective, but the exterior design is simply uninspired and looks like a Corolla or other generic economy sedan.
Interior Sound: While not horrible, I find the interior noise levels (especially from the tires and under hard accelleration) unimpressive.
Gadgets of Questionable Utility: the lane departure warning system sounds good in theory, but in my experience the majority of the time it simply cannot detect the line markers/lines and is, therefore, not engaged.
The front view camera is only marginally useful. I finally turned off the "auto" mode since having it turn on every time I stop a light or stop sign (when I'm likely to want to change the radio or iPod) distracting. But thinking to turn it on when I need it doesn't happen often (and I cant see the button since it's hidden by the steering wheel.
LED Headlights: They aren't any different (functionally or aesthetically) from regular Xenons and are over-priced. (I can't imagine they add more than a fraction of a mile to the MPG rating, if at all). The fact that regular HIDs aren't available on this car is another faux pas.
Anyway, I'm not a disgruntled owner in that I knew what I was getting when I bought it. But after almost a year, I'm finding it a nice car, but not the "luxury hybrid" I was hoping for.
After a year of driving (and approximately 12,000 miles), here's my PROs and CONs of the HS 250h.
PROS
Gas mileage: I have averaged 34 mpg in mixed city/highway driving. While this is admirable mileage for a "luxury" car, it isn't as impressive as it seems given that A4s and 3-series are only a few miles less. I think 40+ mpg is expected of a hybrid.
Sound System: I got one of the very few HS's available with the Mark Levinson sound system which I find superb.
Head-up Display: I find this a very useful feature and another "must-have" for my next car.
Interior Design: I like the overall design of the interior with the center "pod" extending between the driver with the very comfortable placement of the mouse-controller which works well.
CONS
Nav System: Toyota's dinosaur hasn't been significantly updated in years and has fallen woefully behind the competition. See this post for an excellent summary of its deficiencies.
Ipod Interface: while I generally like the mouse-controller, the iPod interface is almost unusable at times. Amongst other gripes, if I want to hear something by "Seal", it takes 20 seconds or more to scan through the alphabet and guess where the S's are (given that the screen goes blank while scanning).
Location of AUX/USB, and power ports: Why these aren't hidden in the armrest (or elsewhere) is a mystery. And those cheap, ugly plastic covers with the white writing look like they belong on an outboard motor, not in a luxury car.
Interior Finishes: while the quality of how everything is put together (tight seams, no gaps or squeaks, etc) is Lexus-caliber, I find some of the interior materials to be really cheap. Specifically the door panels, glove box and center console are made of very hard plastic that scuffs easily and just feels cheap. While using plant-based plastics is admirable, it simply isn't luxury. I know some people don't care for wood, but in my luxury car, I'd like to see a bit more of it. The three dolups of wood )door pulls and tiny bit on the drink holder cover) really seem like an afterthought. Also, the leather is a little thin and not wearing particularly well.
Exterior Design: I realize this is totally subjective, but the exterior design is simply uninspired and looks like a Corolla or other generic economy sedan.
Interior Sound: While not horrible, I find the interior noise levels (especially from the tires and under hard accelleration) unimpressive.
Gadgets of Questionable Utility: the lane departure warning system sounds good in theory, but in my experience the majority of the time it simply cannot detect the line markers/lines and is, therefore, not engaged.
The front view camera is only marginally useful. I finally turned off the "auto" mode since having it turn on every time I stop a light or stop sign (when I'm likely to want to change the radio or iPod) distracting. But thinking to turn it on when I need it doesn't happen often (and I cant see the button since it's hidden by the steering wheel.
LED Headlights: They aren't any different (functionally or aesthetically) from regular Xenons and are over-priced. (I can't imagine they add more than a fraction of a mile to the MPG rating, if at all). The fact that regular HIDs aren't available on this car is another faux pas.
Anyway, I'm not a disgruntled owner in that I knew what I was getting when I bought it. But after almost a year, I'm finding it a nice car, but not the "luxury hybrid" I was hoping for.
03-01-11, 11:42 AM
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03-01-11, 12:26 PM
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Arg, I'm floored at seeing you trading/selling or whatever your HS in since I clearly remember it was you that waited FOREVER to get the MK stereo added to your HS. I had thought you really liked it?
Curious, were you able to get equal or near value out of it when you traded it in? Did you go back to Lexus or private sell?
Curious, were you able to get equal or near value out of it when you traded it in? Did you go back to Lexus or private sell?
03-01-11, 01:06 PM
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Arg, I'm floored at seeing you trading/selling or whatever your HS in since I clearly remember it was you that waited FOREVER to get the MK stereo added to your HS. I had thought you really liked it?
Curious, were you able to get equal or near value out of it when you traded it in? Did you go back to Lexus or private sell?
Curious, were you able to get equal or near value out of it when you traded it in? Did you go back to Lexus or private sell?
03-01-11, 04:57 PM
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I can understand the desire to step up, however the trade offs with the HS were so well documented. I am surprised with the dissatisfaction. There were many articles and You tube reviews that discussed the things you have mentioned here. May I request a dollar figure on the trade in value when that occurs? Eventually I will step up also and have been somewhat concerned about trade in value.
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03-01-11, 06:41 PM
#8
I thought about it as well at the end of December, when the local Acura dealer was offering 110% of Blue Book value on trade-in. That ended up being more than I owed on my HS - so it was sort of a "get out of HS jail free" opportunity. I was thinking of the TSX, but just couldn't live with that ugly nose! And the mpg (on premium) isn't that great considering it's only a 4 cylinder. Now that gas is $3.50, I'm kind of glad I didn't switch.
If you're looking at BMW, have you considered the 335d? Highway mpg is better than the HS, and 0-60 is 6 sec. I thought about that too, but it's around $50K which is out of my price range, but if you're looking at a 5 series, it's not out of yours.
If you're looking at BMW, have you considered the 335d? Highway mpg is better than the HS, and 0-60 is 6 sec. I thought about that too, but it's around $50K which is out of my price range, but if you're looking at a 5 series, it's not out of yours.
03-03-11, 09:07 AM
#9
I, too, am not impressed with the HS in terms of the ancient telematics and low-budget interior (hard plastics). I do like the heads-up display, LKA, keyless entry, radar cruise, cameras, auto-set clock, variable speed window closers, cooled seats, futuristic interior, etc. But, Lexus and Toyota have been reducing the luxury level of their cars while competitors have been moving forward. For financial reasons, I don't intend to trade in my HS any time soon. But, if I needed a new car tomorrow, it would not be a Lexus. I'd take a serious look at the Ford Fusion Hybrid (I never thought I'd ever set foot in a "Big 3" car again, but it has lots of cool tech, looks luxurious inside, gets good mileage) or one of the high end Hyundais (Azera, Genesis). I've been driving nothing but Toyota/Lexus for over 20 years, but their de-contenting (No light in the center console? Halogens? Floormats that unravel around the edges? C'mon!) and quality issues (I had a lemon Toyota Camry and a lemon Lexus ES350 before the HS), not to mention horrendous dealer repair/service experiences have soured me on the brand.
03-06-11, 11:41 AM
#10
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Well, I have to admit.....
I ended up trading my 2010 HS Premium also, after 6mos. Although ultimately not for me, I still think it's a great car and would never come back to this board and be a troll.
We still have our 2010 Prius IV and are lovin' the 56 mpg, especially in these times.
We still have our 2010 Prius IV and are lovin' the 56 mpg, especially in these times.
Last edited by Canesguy; 03-06-11 at 11:47 AM.
03-06-11, 02:44 PM
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I agree
I absolutely agree with everything said..
My Lexus HS250H is about 11 months old. Never learned to like it, although I had owned a ES300 before and own two Prius hybrids.
It is not the technology..it is the car
I don't think much thought process went into this car other than the fact that the Market demanded a mid size "luxury" car with great technology and gas mileage.
My car is neither luxury nor technologically innovative. Poor interior design and not so luxurious. The quietness I expected in a Lexus is gone! It is like driving through a wind tunnel.
A bad marriage-everything it does or doesn't do, annoys me. But I don't know what to trade it for. "It's not easy being green" and expect a quite comfortable ride.
My Lexus HS250H is about 11 months old. Never learned to like it, although I had owned a ES300 before and own two Prius hybrids.
It is not the technology..it is the car
I don't think much thought process went into this car other than the fact that the Market demanded a mid size "luxury" car with great technology and gas mileage.
My car is neither luxury nor technologically innovative. Poor interior design and not so luxurious. The quietness I expected in a Lexus is gone! It is like driving through a wind tunnel.
A bad marriage-everything it does or doesn't do, annoys me. But I don't know what to trade it for. "It's not easy being green" and expect a quite comfortable ride.
03-06-11, 03:30 PM
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I'm sorry to hear about the OP's experience. I have a base HS, which doesn't have many of the features which are both pros and cons of what the the OP had issues with. However, I thought I'd share my experiences so far:
PROS
INTERIOR DESIGN: the pod is centre console is nice, the ambiance is great.
SOUND SYSTEM: I have the base HS, which means I don't have the ML audio system. However, the base system in here sounds better than my aunt's base 09 ES 350 and my friend's 08 IS 250 AWD
CONS
Interior Quality: Exact same gripes as the OP. Too much hard plastic in locations where you frequently touch/come into contact with, including the USB area which is in an inconvenient location; plus the hard plastic on the back of the Drivers and Passenger's side front seats (without a storage area back there for maps, paper, etc.); Leather seats feel thin and has some pleather feel to it, definitely are not regular Lexus quality.
MILEAGE: I live in Canada (Toronto) so we do have colder winters and I understand that has an effect on the mileage and longer warm up time of the car. That said, my mileage since I purchased the car in November is 33.03MPG. I would estimate 90-93% of the miles driven are Highway (either rush hour or no traffic at all). If there's no traffic, 70-73mph is my limit and I consistently get 31.7-31.8mpg. I also have an 04 Acura TSX in the family and driving the exact same routes comparing these two cars (alternating the two cars per week for a month) has the TSX at 32.7mph vs 33.1MPG for the HS (granted, TSX needs premium). It was shocking to be honest.
REAR TRUNK LID and SPOILER/LIP: This area gets unbelievably dirty whenever the roads are wet and so much of that dirty water drips into the trunk whenever I open it. I've been told it's because of the spoiler lip which is why the back end retains so much water/dirty. Design flaw.
PROS
INTERIOR DESIGN: the pod is centre console is nice, the ambiance is great.
SOUND SYSTEM: I have the base HS, which means I don't have the ML audio system. However, the base system in here sounds better than my aunt's base 09 ES 350 and my friend's 08 IS 250 AWD
CONS
Interior Quality: Exact same gripes as the OP. Too much hard plastic in locations where you frequently touch/come into contact with, including the USB area which is in an inconvenient location; plus the hard plastic on the back of the Drivers and Passenger's side front seats (without a storage area back there for maps, paper, etc.); Leather seats feel thin and has some pleather feel to it, definitely are not regular Lexus quality.
MILEAGE: I live in Canada (Toronto) so we do have colder winters and I understand that has an effect on the mileage and longer warm up time of the car. That said, my mileage since I purchased the car in November is 33.03MPG. I would estimate 90-93% of the miles driven are Highway (either rush hour or no traffic at all). If there's no traffic, 70-73mph is my limit and I consistently get 31.7-31.8mpg. I also have an 04 Acura TSX in the family and driving the exact same routes comparing these two cars (alternating the two cars per week for a month) has the TSX at 32.7mph vs 33.1MPG for the HS (granted, TSX needs premium). It was shocking to be honest.
REAR TRUNK LID and SPOILER/LIP: This area gets unbelievably dirty whenever the roads are wet and so much of that dirty water drips into the trunk whenever I open it. I've been told it's because of the spoiler lip which is why the back end retains so much water/dirty. Design flaw.
What is everyone replacing their HS with? How was the trade in value? Thanks James
03-07-11, 05:14 AM
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I am also curious to see what others have in mind for trading.
My preference:
1. Benz (Diesel) or BMW (Only for name's sake).
2. Ford Fusion hybrid.
3. Back to Prius.
03-08-11, 06:09 PM
#15
It's sad to see so many folks are disappointed with the HS250h. I hope that Lexus does not discontinue it, but rather improves its deficiencies. The gas mileage is actually decent on this car, in my opinion. I regularly get 38 mpg as long as I don't have a heavy foot, with mostly 70 mph driving.
Ironically, I've started to see other HS cars on the road over the past couple of weeks (about 2/day), whereas in the past an HS sighting was a rarity for me (and I drive 100+ miles/day).
One big feature this car has: most of the navigation and audio functions are enabled even when the car is moving, unlike every other Touota/Lexus I've driven, to include 2010 models.
Ironically, I've started to see other HS cars on the road over the past couple of weeks (about 2/day), whereas in the past an HS sighting was a rarity for me (and I drive 100+ miles/day).
One big feature this car has: most of the navigation and audio functions are enabled even when the car is moving, unlike every other Touota/Lexus I've driven, to include 2010 models.
Last edited by YotaCarFan; 03-08-11 at 06:14 PM.