NLLex

Hello my friends,

I am (maybe) looking to buy one of these models in stead of our old daily 2gs300 which drives super perfectly smooth and nice and its such a perfect car (maybe even better then my 2004 LS430) but the fuel use is quite high with 9 km per liter with the 2-GS300.

The milage will be around 15.000km per year and It will be mixed with city and highway.

The 4-GS is way more expensive then the 3-GS but I like to calculate the difference on how long it takes to earn the difference back.

I am also comparing at the RX400 (old) and RX450H. These have very attractive prices over here in Europe.

Thank you in advance for your advice!

703

You can use fuelly to work out consumption.

I wouldn’t touch the 3rd Gen, that battery management is bad.

NLLex

Thanks for your reply. I understand that fuelly is for checking your own fuel use but I still need to purchase the car. Over here the gas prices are very high so we have to keep an eye on that!

I didnt know the 3gs had bad batteries... good to know!

909

Spend while you're young and handsome.

One day you'll be old with a lot of money but can't do anything because you'll be too old and broken to enjoy anything.

NLLex

Haha good advice!
I am trying to figur out if I need to spent more on a newer model which is more fuel efficient.... Its still about spending though.

By the way, I dont think there are many GS hybrids in the US?

Lwerewolf

IMO 4GS all the way if you can afford it, especially since you're over here in Europe. The only thing that I somewhat don't like that much on the 4GS is the interior (I like touchscreens, I would've liked the touchscreen + a separate big screen like the 4GS even more, but alas), but this is mostly subjective - and you have way better options for carplay/android auto (i.e. not only grom vline).

Check spritmonitor. I'd say that the 4GS should be 20-30% more fuel efficient.

Re: problems:
-You won't have to worry about the inverter, for starters. This is the big one for me.
-The battery fails on both models, but 1) the 4GS is newer, 2) the chemistry does change over time, the 4GS likely came with "3rd gen" cells (mine came with 2nd gen cells) - google for more info on what "generation of cells/modules" means. TLR - newer has been observed to be better. The generations are interchangeable (I have only 4th gen cells in mine after I rebuilt it).
-Shocks - both cars "eat" them, but AVS is worth it.
-F-sport - I'd skip if you want the option to go with 17'' wheels for extra comfort, otherwise - read up and decide. I just switched to my winters (245/40/18 vs 225/50/17) and there is no comparison. Even grips better for whatever reason... (probably due to our *****ty roads)
-Brakes - identical between 3GS/4GS, unless you get the F-sport package. This does also meant that the 4GS can suffer from a worn brake pump motor (common on all drive-by-wire Toyotas - i.e. all hybrids). Bad news - motor is sold as one with the ABS block & the accumulator (pressure reservoir). Good news - it is shared with the IS/GS/RC300h, so plenty of wreckers IF it ever fails (do make sure to pull over as soon as any brake light comes up, though - and read up on the issue). F-sport has bigger front discs (with alu hats, rotors not sold separately, VERY expensive compared to normal rotors), different calipers (both 4pot, the f-sport ones position the pads correctly on the bigger f-sport discs, no other differences).
-Engine - uhh, let's say that it's of the "very reliable" variety in both cars. 3GS has a 2GR-FSE with actual log manifold runners (thanks @petershen ) and different intake variable valve timing (60deg. vs 40deg, max advance is 4deg. later than the regular 2GR-FSE, max retard is resp. 24deg. later) - atkinson-ish but not quite. 4GS has a proper atkinson motor (high comp, wide intake cam with practically fixed "late intake valve closing" effect, etc).

This is coming from somebody with a 3GSh. It's not just the fuel economy.

Re: the RX - definitely the 450h, for very similar reasons. Compared to GS - cheaper, practically FWD (air-cooled e-motor on the rear axle - ehh... dunno), different battery modules (no clue how the market for those is if it goes bad), slower, SUV (thirstier on the highway), actually has boot space (battery is somewhere under the rear seats), etc.

petershen

The 4GS450h is definitely an improved version of the 3GS450h (which I have)

But.... I love my 3GS, the looks, the interior, and with the 3.79 final drive it is faster than the 4GS, though I assume you could swap in the 3.79 on the 4GS as well

As @Lwerewolf said you can swap to gen4 cells in the batteries, if only we had a solution for the inverter, maybe there is a path for this via the LS600h piece...

NLLex

Thank you so much for all this information! This is very useful and informative!
I have made some calculations on the fuel consumption of the 4gs comparing with the 3gs (I thought the 4 was way more efficient) and I think that the 4gs isnt worth going over my budget so much. The price difference between the 2 is a minimum of 15.000 euro and that is just too much.

Now I have to focus on the difference between the 3GS and the 3RX since they are almost the same purchase price over here.

The crazy thing is that on paper the 3RX seems more fuel efficient then the 3GS 450! Wile the 3RX is 250kg more heavy and its an SUV....
Ill going to test some models to see what model is the most silent with roadnoise since that is also a very important subject for me.

Lwerewolf

The RX450h has an atkinson cycle engine. The 3GSh does not (well, there is something... very slight, apparently). That's the main thing.
15k euros difference sounds crazy, here the difference between a good 3GS and the cheapest 4GS is ~5k eur. Could also be that you're looking at cheap 3GSh's, which... might be a bag full of cats :P

NLLex

Nice 3gsses are over here between 10 -15.000 euros and the 4gs starts from 25.000. The gap is to big for me when I try to urn the money back on the fuel difference.

I like to know if there is a special milage where the problems start to come at the 3gs but its the wrong topic for that question

703

Don’t bother with the hybrid on 3GS. Doesnt save Much on fuel then you got the battery to worry about unless it’s a 2011 model with improved battery management (reduces max current draw).

NLLex

I see that a refurbished battery is only 600 euro in the UK or didnt you mean these costs?