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Just picked this up for my Dad, it's a 2020 ES 350 with Premium Package and Panorama Roof. I carpool to work with him so I'll be driving this almost daily and I'll be able to give a good comparison against my 2019 GS for those on the fence on getting a GS or this. Don't worry, I still have my GS and it's not going anywhere.
But so far I'm liking it, it's got good power for highway passes but the brakes aren't as good as the GS, not even close. I don't know if the FSport version is any different but the GS just feels like a well controlled wild animal on the road.
NICE! Def interested to heaar your thoughts after daily driving a bit. The tech and updates alone make this appealing. But ya, no GS. Plus your Cali, so going from RWD to FWD? ewwww, lol
NICE! Def interested to heaar your thoughts after daily driving a bit. The tech and updates alone make this appealing. But ya, no GS. Plus your Cali, so going from RWD to FWD? ewwww, lol
Oh yeah, u need to go easy on the gas on this one, the tires spins almost 90% of the time if u gun it too hard and it's already riding on Michelins but all season.
Interesting that you say the brakes on the ES aren’t as good as the GS. I had the opposite experience with the 19 ES I had as a loaner. I wonder if it’s because my GS’s have been AWD so didn’t get the better brakes.
Is there a reason the AWD GS doesn’t get the same brakes as the RWD? Is it not possible to retrofit the RWD F-Sport brakes on the AWD model? Might be worth it if so.
Interesting that you say the brakes on the ES aren’t as good as the GS. I had the opposite experience with the 19 ES I had as a loaner. I wonder if it’s because my GS’s have been AWD so didn’t get the better brakes.
Is there a reason the AWD GS doesn’t get the same brakes as the RWD? Is it not possible to retrofit the RWD F-Sport brakes on the AWD model? Might be worth it if so.
I don't think it's really possible to compare the brakes between the two [very different] cars just based on a couple days of driving, especially when one of the cars is brand spanking new and the brakes aren't even fully bedded yet. One vehicle is not going to have the exact same feel or pressure response as another vehicle, which doesn't mean one is better or inferior to the other.
Thanks for sharing. Please keep us updated. Sometimes I wonder if I would have to settle for a ES when it comes time for the GS to go away for good. Would be nice to have an objective comparison but of course, a ES will never truly replace a RWD GS.
I don't think it's really possible to compare the brakes between the two [very different] cars just based on a couple days of driving, especially when one of the cars is brand spanking new and the brakes aren't even fully bedded yet. One vehicle is not going to have the exact same feel or pressure response as another vehicle, which doesn't mean one is better or inferior to the other.
I don't think it's really possible to compare the brakes between the two [very different] cars just based on a couple days of driving, especially when one of the cars is brand spanking new and the brakes aren't even fully bedded yet. One vehicle is not going to have the exact same feel or pressure response as another vehicle, which doesn't mean one is better or inferior to the other.
The few days I had with the ES, I definitely felt like it stopped shorter/better than either GS I’ve owned. Looks like all the 60-0 tests favor the ES in stopping distance by 8-10 feet over the base GS, which is pretty substantial, so it’s not just “feel”. I would definitely consider upgrading to the F-Sport brakes, depending on what all was needed to do it.
EDIT: Well looks like those of us with AWD will just have to live with inferior brakes to our RWD brethren. After doing some searching it seems it’s not the plug-n-play scenario I would have thought. Someone else here on CL thought the same and attempted it but found the differences between the two braking systems made it pretty much impossible. I don’t understand why Lexus didn’t also give the AWD F-Sports the same upgraded brakes, but it is what it is.
The few days I had with the ES, I definitely felt like it stopped shorter/better than either GS I’ve owned. Looks like all the 60-0 tests favor the ES in stopping distance by 8-10 feet over the base GS, which is pretty substantial, so it’s not just “feel”. I would definitely consider upgrading to the F-Sport brakes, depending on what all was needed to do it.
Stopping distances usually are determined more by the tires (and pavement) than by the brakes. Brakes are no better than the difference between one's ability of 'threshold braking' (slowing down the quickest by maintaining brake force at the optimum level without locking up the wheels) versus locking-up the wheels and skidding the tires. Any vehicle's brakes can be used to 'threshold brake' by an experienced driver, and any vehicle's brakes can be used to lock 'em up and skid the tires. That only leaves the vehicle's weight and the vehicle's tires (along with the pavement friction) as variances. Now, if the vehicle is being tracked, then of course bigger brakes and track pads will stand the heat related abuse of heavy braking over and over and over in short periods of time, but that consideration is meaningless except on the track.
Stopping distances usually are determined more by the tires (and pavement) than by the brakes. Brakes are no better than the difference between one's ability of 'threshold braking' (slowing down the quickest by maintaining brake force at the optimum level without locking up the wheels) versus locking-up the wheels and skidding the tires. Any vehicle's brakes can be used to 'threshold brake' by an experienced driver, and any vehicle's brakes can be used to lock 'em up and skid the tires. That only leaves the vehicle's weight and the vehicle's tires (along with the pavement friction) as variances. Now, if the vehicle is being tracked, then of course bigger brakes and track pads will stand the heat related abuse of heavy braking over and over and over in short periods of time, but that consideration is meaningless except on the track.
I appreciate the brake lesson, but I know how they work. Having driven both, and looking at data from both, it's clear the new ES just has better brakes than the base GS. At this point it just sounds like you're making excuses for the GS. All of those factors you listed were present in all tests for both cars. They all come to the same conclusion: the ES just stops better. That's all there is to it. Go drive a 2019+ ES and then come back and tell me your impressions. I've driven both -- have you?
01-23-20, 02:31 PM
My new ride... Again! lol
