sweetsc400

Howdy,

I'm a long-time forum member and have owned numerous Lexus and Toyota products over time. To name a few:

Past...
- '93 SC 400
- '95 SC 400
- '98 ES 300

Current...
- '07 ES 350 (DD)
- '94 Land Cruiser (toy)

As you can see, this would be my first GS. Subsequently, I've perused the GS FAQ thread -- lots of great info.

While I enjoy -- err, respect?? -- my ES, it doesn't tug on the heart strings of an enthusiast. I'm a younger fella (early 30's), and absolutely REQUIRE something with some personality and, dare I say, obscurity.

I perused the local LS 460 listings, as I'm drawn to the manufacturing process of the LS, and the special attention it receives on the assembly line. It's just a magnificent vehicle spawned from a first rate manufacturing discipline process. Like I said, however, I'm in my mid 30's... In fact, the average age of an ES owner is mid 50's.

Enter the GS. The GS AWD has some sporting pretentions while also offering the practicality of decent fuel economy and all weather stability. With another tiny person (child) on the way, I wanted to keep payments out of the equation. I found a local, one owner '08 with 80k miles.

***Here's where I could use some input***

I have both an AutoCheck and CarFax report on this vehicle. Both show a one-owner, wreck-free vehicle; however, it's the maintenance history that I'm concerned about. AutoCheck shows the following in terms of maintenance. I know the recommended oil change interval is 7,500 miles, but the following *suggests* the owner pushed the envelop. What gets me is that I have no way of knowing for certain where the vehicle was serviced or whether or not the AutoCheck info is correct or all-inclusive. The CarFax data is useless.

10,354 07/27/2009
21,051 03/16/2010
42,599 08/12/2011
48,450 12/16/2011
55,109 05/05/2012
60,153 08/17/2012
70,227 04/06/2013
75,545 07/26/2013
79,245 10/18/2013

So, my questions are:

1) Assuming the above represents oil change intervals, should I stay away?
2) Should I contact a Lexus dealer to see if they have service records? I have service history for my ES and everything that's ever been done exclusively by the Lexus dealer, but NONE of it shows up on CarFax or AutoCheck.
3) As a newb to the GS, what else should I look for?

Thanks, in advance, for your help,
Matt

alchemist

iTrader: (1)

Did you go to Lexus Drivers site and input VIN and look at history? I would do this and call the dealer.

The only caveat is if youre buying from someone who is like me and does everything themselves. Then you will see no service history.

For extra diligence have it inspected.

sweetsc400

I didn't. Do you have the web site?

Assuming the above history is accurate, would you all recommend I stay away from this car? It's in great condition, overall.

What are some common issues I should look for in this car?

YaMomma

Synthetic oil is normally good for 10k miles so IF the report is showing oil changes it was done within 10k for the most part. Like the previous post if you want more info create an account at Lexus with the VIN.

https://secure.drivers.lexus.com/lex...-lexus/home.do

Even that doesn't prove what was or wasn't maintained it will only show you what a Lexus dealership did. I do my own maintenance but even if I didn't I wouldn't have my oil changed at Lexus because they charge $110 an hour in my state.

08 seems to be a good year for the GS it doesn't have some of the issues of the 06 and 07. However you may want to see what your Lexus dealer charges for the 90k maintenance because that's one of the more expensive jobs. My dealer wants $2500 but that price includes replacing the water pump as well which is something you should consider at 90k miles.

Overall as long as the price is right I wouldn't be concerned about the service records you found. Have it inspected at a Lexus dealer and then you will know what needs to be done. I have an 06 AWD and in the past few months it seems to snow every other week. I've owned three Audi Quattro's in the past and the AWD GS is just as good if not better in the snow.

Ironman50

I own a 2008 GS 350 and bought it with 10 K miles in mint condition.

Great car.

FYI......there are 2 major recall items on the 2008 that Lexus dealership pays for so check on history.......if not done yet it obvioulsy needs to be.....these 2 recalls would have been done at a Lexus dealership because major repairs.

(1) Spring Valves (known as ALE campaign)

(2) most recently V V T Actuator Gear (known as DLG campaign)

alchemist

iTrader: (1)

make sure water pump isnt leaking.

sweetsc400

Thanks for the great advice, everyone. I registered on the site referenced above and added the VIN for this vehicle, which returned seemingly complete service history. It's been serviced every five thousand miles at my local Lexus dealership. On a few occasions, it went 7,500 or so before a service, which doesn't worry me.

Side question: Does Lexus use fully synthetic oil in the 2GR-FSE?

Seeing all of the history on the Lexus Drivers web site has raised a couple of questions:

1) If it's been serviced at Lexus, is a one owner and shows no wrecks on the CarFax or AutoCheck, why wouldn't Lexus have kept it and sold it as a pre-owned unit on their lot? The answer to this question may have been impacted by item two below.

2) At approximately 60,000 miles, there's a service entry description of "Front/Rear Body." Does anyone know what this is?

3) At approximately 70,000 miles, there's a service entry description of "R. DSC 1-SD INCL;R&R DSC PAD." Does anyone know what this is?

4) There are a couple of "Non Warrantable Operation Codes." Is that anything to worry about?

Thank you guys for your help. I'll be driving to look at it tomorrow (it's a bit of a drive), and if it passes my inspection, I'll be asking to keep it over night to take it to my local Lexus dealer for an inspection.

I appreciate the guidance,
Matt

alchemist

iTrader: (1)

Yes synthetic is preferred.
1. Not sure here. Usually this is the case if it is a trade-in
2. your service advisor at lexus will know. I also called them for things I didnt understand on my history.
3. call service advisor. sounds like rear brake disc/pad replacement
4. not sure here. I think basic maintenance items not covered under warranty - Wipers, brake pads, etc.

blue00

I am fairly certain that the stock oil they use is not synthetic, I would opt for a DYI or a synthetic oil job and I would not extend the service interval. Oil is such a basic thing that it makes no sense to cheap out on it.

https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sc-...xus-techs.html
Looks like brake job and some body trim work (something loose/broken/touch up), you can always call the dealer that performed the work and ask what it was.

As to why you are not buying it from a Lexus lot/ Lexus didn't keep it, who knows. How do you know the car was given to a Lexus dealer to begin with, the previous owner could have trade it in at any dealership. Trade in's could be auctioned off, or could have been traded between dealers for whatever cars their salespeople feel they can easily sell/have demand for. The GS is not a particularly in high demand car.

Make sure the recall service is done, and you should be OK. My feeling is that with the "Lexus" badge dealerships or unknown mechanics may want to take you for a ride, it helps to know the car, how it works, and what things cost so that they don't take you for a ride (But I am sure you get the same for your ES), for example >$100 for oil changes at the dealership is a total non starter for me.

I too am in my early 30s and got the car for similar reasons as you, I had the car for 2 months so far and it has been everything I expected. I got 2 little ones in the back and they love the car, my older one actually falls asleep in longer drives, and on the way to school (when the wife isn't looking) my 3 year old elegantly asks "Daddy make the car go whoosh whoosh" as she swings her arms left and right.

There are probably sportier cars out there, down to outright city hooligan cars, but I have a long commute (100Km/day) and I prefer to limit the harshness of the ride and enjoy having a pleasant ride. When I shopped around the closest contender was a Acura TL, but I found the highway/acceleration noise excessive

AudioBob

It looks like you have done all of the homework that you can and the history checks out good. Go drive it and check it out thoroughly. If you are still nervous take it to a trusted mechanic to have it checked out. You always take some risk buying a used vehicle, but I have been very fortunate every time I have done it because I do all the homework I can before purchasing.

I really like my GS and it has had very little in the way of maintenance issues.

sweetsc400

I spoke with the salesman at the dealership again today, and asked him to do a walk-around while I was on the phone. When he arrived at the car, I asked him to "pick it apart" -- i.e., be very, very picky, as the drive to view it tomorrow will be a long one and I'd rather reveal a show stopper beforehand.

He started at the bumper and hood, pointing out some rock chips. I'm okay with this. After all, it is a six year old vehicle with 80k miles. My ES has its share of chips, and I'm no stranger to the soft clear coat of some Lexus vehicles. After purchasing mine, I wet sanded all of the scratches.

Moving on to the drivers' side doors, he said, "well, there are some scratches..." He detailed each scratch one-by-one. Then he got to the passenger said. "There are quite a few scratches over the rear wheel well. And a ding. I'm just being really honest."

I asked him to move to the interior and, again, pick it apart. He pointed out typical wear on the drivers' seat left bolster. Then he mentioned something surprising. The leather on the center armrest had a worn spot. I poured over other GS ads -- particularly those with black interiors -- trying to determine if it's common for the center console to wear so much.

At this point, I really appreciated his thoroughness, (what seemed to be) honesty and willingness to help. So I asked if he'd take detailed pictures of the "problem" areas. He happily complied, and I've attached them.

There are two other GS 350 AWDs much closer to me, but neither has as clean of a service history, nor are they single owners (one is a four owner, according to CarFax, and didn't leave Lexus' hands until 5k miles, which worries me). Additionally, I'm a sucker for black/black.

Clean service and ownership history are of the most importance to me; however, I can't say with confidence whether these imperfections are indicative of neglect. What say you?

Oh, and, I don't believe either of the recall services have been completed. Is the fact that they've not a risk to the longevity of the car?

Thanks, again. I'm an extremely picky buyer. You guys are helping a lot.

sweetsc400

More pics...

sweetsc400

I was thinking the dealer used a synthetic blend. I can't remember for certain.

Funny story about your kiddos... I live in the Midwest and in a recent snow storm I took my 2 year old daughter for a ride in my Land Cruiser with front, center and rear locking differentials. I locked it up and hit our neighborhood swimming pool parking lot to exercise the locker actuators. It lurched forward with full traction and my daughter squealed and giggled. Now I "drive fast and dangerous."

blue00

The leather in my seats looks similar, as long as it is still soft, you can likely easily just condition it with some of that leather balm/treatment thing. The wear on the center arm rest looks beyond repair. Someone recently posted that they just had an upholster re-do it and give a quote for the seats for what I thought was a rather reasonable price (<$1000) (comparing to what a leather couch costs) the exterior dings look minor, most look like they would buff out, but the ones on the rear right door/quarter may be a bit deeper though, the key scratch under the door handle also seems deep, but I don't think you can be too picky about stuff like that especially if it is worked into the price.

One thing that got me (and the Lexus dealer was up to snub to fix) and you should check is for rock chips/dings or scratches on the park assist sensors, especially in the front. Dealer quotes over $500 to replace one sensor, so make sure there is no damage to them. My feeling is that the front bumper sensors especially are placed rather stupidly. If the bumpers were scratched or tapped by something it could also have deformed/damaged them, apparently they are very sensitive. If you are comfortable taking bumper down yourself, it is not too tough of a DYI and the part (one sensor) can be had as low as $180.

I wouldn't be put off by two owners, rather than relying on and I am not sure what "clean service history" means, some shops (read as Dealers) report everything even bulb changes, others will never show up. I rely on the car history reports primarily for accident damage/insurance title data. the local DMV should be able to provide you with a rather through history in some cases, here in Ontario, you can buy a package for a car that shows odometer readings at every renewal, transfers of ownership, owner names, how long they owned it (this is where you see auction cars change owners like 6 times in a week)

sweetsc400

Thanks for the tips about the parking sensors. I worked that into my list of things to check when car shopping today.

In addition to the car pictured above, I tested two other 2008 GS 350 AWDs. I saved the black car for last, as it was my favorited based on what I knew, and didn't want to be coerced by temptation without looking at a cars in varying conditions, color combos, etc.

1. First up: A 2008 Smoky Granite Mica with light grey leather over birds eye maple and 72k miles at a Chrysler/Dodge/Ram/Jeep dealership (eek). With it being the first GS I've ever looked at with the intention of buying, I had nothing with which to compare. Price-wise, this was in the middle.

It was exceptionally clean, virtually zero scratches/dents, but there were ever-so-minor chips in the clear coat of the front bumper cover. The worst part was a botched touch up on the rear bumper cover. Their paint shop attempted to respray a portion of the center of the bumper but seemingly didn't let the paint cure before a cut and buff, resulting in removal of the clear coat. Otherwise, well a over average condition for the age and miles. It was a two owner car with most of the service/repair paperwork in the glove box. Noteworthy is a water pump replacement 10k miles ago due to a noisy bearing.

The interior was immaculate, and I loved the color combo -- more than I thought I would. I found nothing wrong, save for VERY minor wear in the drivers' outside seat bolster.

It drove great. Smooth, tight shifts; quiet, strong motor; no rattles/squeaks; no tire noise, pull or vibration; smooth, linear brake feel (although, the brakes squeaked -- the front pads were replaced, and may be of poor quality).

Overall, I was off to a good start.

2. Second up: A 2008 Matador Red Mica with tan leather on reddish wood (can't remember what it's called) and 81k miles at my local Lexus dealership. This was the most expensive of the three.

A one owner car with impeccable maintenance history (seemingly all done at this dealership), I was less than impressed with the state of its exterior. There were dozens of scratches and a half dozen dings, although what paint wasn't scratched, scraped or dinged was deep and lustrous, likely owing to its numerous detail jobs completed at Lexus.

The interior was very nice, with minimal wear, but not as nice as car number one. While no doubt nice, both the interior and exterior colors were my least favorite.

It drove perfectly -- couldn't find a thing to gripe about. And the overall experience at the dealership was pleasant, as usual, save for an awkward sales manager who would appear out of no where and say, "me again..."

3. Third and final: A 2008 Obsidian Black over black leather with reddish wood and 80k miles at a Chevrolet dealership a little over an hour away. This is the one owner car shown above with some wear and tear, but complete, timely maintenance history at my local Lexus dealership.

It was trashed. Not a straight panel on it in terms of scrapes and dings. Filthy -- hadn't been washed in what appeared to be months. The wheels showed curb rash, corrosion and pitting. The console, shifter and steering wheel leather were excessively worn, and the console itself was broken (wouldn't open). It started and ran well from what I could tell. However, it was blocked in by trucks and, after witnessing its condition, I declined to drive it. Oh, and, the sunroof wouldn't close after opened it while testing the switchgear. Oops.

This was a definite no-go. I hopped in my trusty ES and headed back to civilization to grab coffee and my lap top.

Cost Benefit Analysis worksheets are a great tool in these situations. I focused on car 1 and 2, ranking interior condition, exterior condition, mechanical condition, known ownership history, known maintenance history, exterior color, interior color, price, dealership and miles. The Smoky Granite Mica car was a clear victor.

With the ES glistening -- and me slightly sad over the thought it leaving my hands -- I pulled back into the Wild West MOPAR lot, again feeling out of place. My salesman spotted me, and I asked to throw some numbers around. We sat down at a table where fake plant leaves from a nearby topiary continuously molested me. Four number exchanges later, I sighed three seemingly magic words -- "this won't work." "Wait," he said. "Let's see if we can work something out." "Okay?" I questioned, thinking we were working toward agreement the entire time. Long-short, I got what I want, which is top end for my car and $18,5 for the GS. Not a screamer of a deal, but I'm happy.It has new front brakes, a new battery, wipers, air filter, cabin filter and alignment. The Dunlop tires are about 50-60%.

It's not over, though. I wanted to take it home to try it out in the garage, test my daughter's car seat, and thoroughly inspect and drive it. The only thing I can find wrong are the aforementioned squeaky brakes (front are new, rear were replaced 10k ago), and the headlights seem to move ever-so-slightly when I hit a moderate to large bump.

In all, I'll very likely execute the purchase in the morning.

Below are some pics...

Thanks, all of you, for helping make this decision. I'm short on time these days, and your input helped me make a major purchase with confidence.