Cold Start RPM Spike?
01-22-10, 09:26 AM
#46
observe and document every time the idle deflection, rough idle(if any) happens.
im assuming you still have warranty, since your car is an 07 (miles??)...if another one of these symptoms happens- i strongly advise you to bring it to the dealer for documentation, and servicing.
i would not even touch anything in the engine if it is still under warranty.
as i previously mentioned before (in another thread), the 300s/350s had issues with carbon buildup due to the DI design, Lexus had been dealing with the carbon buildup issue depending on the severity of the issue...common symptoms of excessive carbon buildup would be rough idle, sputtering, etc..
not saying this is the cause of your Idle deflection issue--BUT it can definitely be a potential cause.
lexus replaced both of my 02 sensors, and ECU for the above problems-i am still observing if it happens again.
im assuming you still have warranty, since your car is an 07 (miles??)...if another one of these symptoms happens- i strongly advise you to bring it to the dealer for documentation, and servicing.
i would not even touch anything in the engine if it is still under warranty.
as i previously mentioned before (in another thread), the 300s/350s had issues with carbon buildup due to the DI design, Lexus had been dealing with the carbon buildup issue depending on the severity of the issue...common symptoms of excessive carbon buildup would be rough idle, sputtering, etc..
not saying this is the cause of your Idle deflection issue--BUT it can definitely be a potential cause.
lexus replaced both of my 02 sensors, and ECU for the above problems-i am still observing if it happens again.
I plan on going to the garage to take a video this afternoon, I can't even remember myself what my tach does. It should be plenty cold down there, around 30F and the car hasn't been started for nearly a week.
01-22-10, 09:39 AM
#47
observe and document every time the idle deflection, rough idle(if any) happens.
im assuming you still have warranty, since your car is an 07 (miles??)...if another one of these symptoms happens- i strongly advise you to bring it to the dealer for documentation, and servicing.
i would not even touch anything in the engine if it is still under warranty.
as i previously mentioned before (in another thread), the 300s/350s had issues with carbon buildup due to the DI design, Lexus had been dealing with the carbon buildup issue depending on the severity of the issue...common symptoms of excessive carbon buildup would be rough idle, sputtering, etc..
not saying this is the cause of your Idle deflection issue--BUT it can definitely be a potential cause.
lexus replaced both of my 02 sensors, and ECU for the above problems-i am still observing if it happens again.
im assuming you still have warranty, since your car is an 07 (miles??)...if another one of these symptoms happens- i strongly advise you to bring it to the dealer for documentation, and servicing.
i would not even touch anything in the engine if it is still under warranty.
as i previously mentioned before (in another thread), the 300s/350s had issues with carbon buildup due to the DI design, Lexus had been dealing with the carbon buildup issue depending on the severity of the issue...common symptoms of excessive carbon buildup would be rough idle, sputtering, etc..
not saying this is the cause of your Idle deflection issue--BUT it can definitely be a potential cause.
lexus replaced both of my 02 sensors, and ECU for the above problems-i am still observing if it happens again.
01-22-10, 09:41 AM
#48
I assume that this falls under the powertrain warranty and not the basic one? I'm always leery about bringing the car in to be looked at even if I suspect it's a warranty item, unless the problem is VERY obvious, as they insist on charging the ripoff diagnostic fee.
I plan on going to the garage to take a video this afternoon, I can't even remember myself what my tach does. It should be plenty cold down there, around 30F and the car hasn't been started for nearly a week.
I plan on going to the garage to take a video this afternoon, I can't even remember myself what my tach does. It should be plenty cold down there, around 30F and the car hasn't been started for nearly a week.
01-22-10, 09:52 AM
#49
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Most important is documentation of issues (miles, date, symptoms,...etc)
Every case is different...Ask your Lexus dealer about 3GS Carbon buildup issues.
BTW, also check for oil consumption as well...
again; im not saying this is your problem but could definitely be one.
01-22-10, 10:31 AM
#50
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1B9AqMuJ3gw
I screwed up though, the first time I started the car my camera wasn't recording the video and I sat there for a minute thinking it was recording and it wasn't. I turned the car off and started it again with this video.
The tach behaved differently the first time than what's in this video (ugh). The first time, it jumped straight to 1500-1600 rpm, and then cycled up and down between 1250 or so and 1500. The needle was moving up and down between the two points every second or so. I'm not sure what I should think of that hunting on the first cold startup that doesn't repeat itself when the car is started again a minute later. Worth complaining about?
P.S. Spark plugs were changed only a few hundred km ago.
By the way Tony, just watched your video again... why the heck is your engine so loud, I can barely hear mine in the cabin (even with the super sensitive microphone on my camera you can't really hear it, well until the GROM kicks in). Are the 3.5Ls a lot noisier than the 3.0s in general?
I screwed up though, the first time I started the car my camera wasn't recording the video and I sat there for a minute thinking it was recording and it wasn't. I turned the car off and started it again with this video.
The tach behaved differently the first time than what's in this video (ugh). The first time, it jumped straight to 1500-1600 rpm, and then cycled up and down between 1250 or so and 1500. The needle was moving up and down between the two points every second or so. I'm not sure what I should think of that hunting on the first cold startup that doesn't repeat itself when the car is started again a minute later. Worth complaining about?
P.S. Spark plugs were changed only a few hundred km ago.
By the way Tony, just watched your video again... why the heck is your engine so loud, I can barely hear mine in the cabin (even with the super sensitive microphone on my camera you can't really hear it, well until the GROM kicks in). Are the 3.5Ls a lot noisier than the 3.0s in general?
Last edited by BinaryJay; 01-22-10 at 11:15 AM.
01-22-10, 11:37 AM
#51
I don't recall that cold start idle hunting before I had toyota change the plugs. If no idle hunting is normal at startup, then I guess I will take another video to take with me to the dealership and complain that something happened when they changed the plugs. Maybe they accidentally loosened a vacuum hose on me or something. Just don't know why it would be normal after starting the second time.
Edit: Went down and started it again after letting the car sit for a couple of hours. No idle hunting again. So I'm at a loss, prior to today the car hadn't been started in a week so I wonder if that has something to do with it. I don't see how the engine could have any heat left in it after only being idled for a minute an hour or two ago ... should have been back to square one. Any ideas?
I will try to take another video tomorrow I guess, I want to have a video showing it happening before I bring it to the dealership so there is some evidence in case it's totally unreproducible after driving it there.
Edit: Went down and started it again after letting the car sit for a couple of hours. No idle hunting again. So I'm at a loss, prior to today the car hadn't been started in a week so I wonder if that has something to do with it. I don't see how the engine could have any heat left in it after only being idled for a minute an hour or two ago ... should have been back to square one. Any ideas?
I will try to take another video tomorrow I guess, I want to have a video showing it happening before I bring it to the dealership so there is some evidence in case it's totally unreproducible after driving it there.
Last edited by BinaryJay; 01-22-10 at 12:47 PM.
01-25-10, 05:38 AM
#52
Tony did you have this checked out yet? I think I'll go down this morning and take a proper video of the first cold start... I have to say, it's bugging me now but I don't want to make a fool of myself bringing the car into the dealer over nothing.
01-25-10, 06:32 AM
#53
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJIopRXnOzo
Proper first morning start video... car goes to 1500 rpm right away, then after a few moments drops several hundred rpm, then goes back up and hunts around 100-200 rpm for a while. It doesn't look normal to me. I'll bring the video to Toyota.
Took the video to Toyota, the SA wouldn't even look at it or let me show it to a tech. And they insisted that they will need to charge me ~100 diagnostic fee if they don't find anything wrong or if they find something wrong that isn't covered under the warranty. Given that this only is pronounced when the engine is completely cold I hope I don't get shafted. Made an appt. for Wednesday, I think I'll email several Lexus dealerships with the video and hopefully one of them will actually look at it and suggest something before then.
They made it sound like because I brought the car in to have the spark plugs replaced that the problem existed before that and I was trying to remedy it without having them diagnose a problem first, but I was just bringing it in because it was coming up soon as a required maintenance item on the regular schedule and I didn't see any reason to wait until I passed that mileage point.
Proper first morning start video... car goes to 1500 rpm right away, then after a few moments drops several hundred rpm, then goes back up and hunts around 100-200 rpm for a while. It doesn't look normal to me. I'll bring the video to Toyota.
Took the video to Toyota, the SA wouldn't even look at it or let me show it to a tech. And they insisted that they will need to charge me ~100 diagnostic fee if they don't find anything wrong or if they find something wrong that isn't covered under the warranty. Given that this only is pronounced when the engine is completely cold I hope I don't get shafted. Made an appt. for Wednesday, I think I'll email several Lexus dealerships with the video and hopefully one of them will actually look at it and suggest something before then.
They made it sound like because I brought the car in to have the spark plugs replaced that the problem existed before that and I was trying to remedy it without having them diagnose a problem first, but I was just bringing it in because it was coming up soon as a required maintenance item on the regular schedule and I didn't see any reason to wait until I passed that mileage point.
Last edited by BinaryJay; 01-25-10 at 07:01 AM.
03-01-10, 10:33 PM
#54
Well, you hit the nail right on the head. As I mentioned previously, I was once a Toyota tech (eight years ago) at a very large well-known dealership and I happen to be in the area this past Saturday so I visited some old friends at this dealership. Since I originally posted this issue, the rough idle and hesitation began occurring so I brought it up to some of them. Funny that they sorta laughed at me and said Carbon Buildup right away. Sigh....Good thing is, he offered to fix it for me.
Anyways, tonight, the CEL popped on so it's obviously getting worse. I'll be bringing it in next Tuesday for surgery. I'm grateful that I'll have my trustworthy ex-coworker working on it. I have really bad trust issues when it comes to who works on my car, if it's not me.
Will keep ya'll posted.
Anyways, tonight, the CEL popped on so it's obviously getting worse. I'll be bringing it in next Tuesday for surgery. I'm grateful that I'll have my trustworthy ex-coworker working on it. I have really bad trust issues when it comes to who works on my car, if it's not me.
Will keep ya'll posted.
observe and document every time the idle deflection, rough idle(if any) happens.
im assuming you still have warranty, since your car is an 07 (miles??)...if another one of these symptoms happens- i strongly advise you to bring it to the dealer for documentation, and servicing.
i would not even touch anything in the engine if it is still under warranty.
as i previously mentioned before (in another thread), the 300s/350s had issues with carbon buildup due to the DI design, Lexus had been dealing with the carbon buildup issue depending on the severity of the issue...common symptoms of excessive carbon buildup would be rough idle, sputtering, etc..
not saying this is the cause of your Idle deflection issue--BUT it can definitely be a potential cause.
lexus replaced both of my 02 sensors, and ECU for the above problems-i am still observing if it happens again.
im assuming you still have warranty, since your car is an 07 (miles??)...if another one of these symptoms happens- i strongly advise you to bring it to the dealer for documentation, and servicing.
i would not even touch anything in the engine if it is still under warranty.
as i previously mentioned before (in another thread), the 300s/350s had issues with carbon buildup due to the DI design, Lexus had been dealing with the carbon buildup issue depending on the severity of the issue...common symptoms of excessive carbon buildup would be rough idle, sputtering, etc..
not saying this is the cause of your Idle deflection issue--BUT it can definitely be a potential cause.
lexus replaced both of my 02 sensors, and ECU for the above problems-i am still observing if it happens again.
03-02-10, 08:35 AM
#57
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Well, you hit the nail right on the head. As I mentioned previously, I was once a Toyota tech (eight years ago) at a very large well-known dealership and I happen to be in the area this past Saturday so I visited some old friends at this dealership. Since I originally posted this issue, the rough idle and hesitation began occurring so I brought it up to some of them. Funny that they sorta laughed at me and said Carbon Buildup right away. Sigh....Good thing is, he offered to fix it for me.
Anyways, tonight, the CEL popped on so it's obviously getting worse. I'll be bringing it in next Tuesday for surgery. I'm grateful that I'll have my trustworthy ex-coworker working on it. I have really bad trust issues when it comes to who works on my car, if it's not me.
Will keep ya'll posted.
Anyways, tonight, the CEL popped on so it's obviously getting worse. I'll be bringing it in next Tuesday for surgery. I'm grateful that I'll have my trustworthy ex-coworker working on it. I have really bad trust issues when it comes to who works on my car, if it's not me.
Will keep ya'll posted.
Carbon Buildup is a true problem with these cars; 300s/350s to say, i still have to verify this with any 430/460s.
My personal suspicion grew one time when i noticed that my 3GS have MORE noticeable tailpipe/exhaust tip carbon buildup compared with my Porsches (DI engine as well), and my wife's ride....Everytime i go to my local dealer i would check the exhaust tips of different model year 3GS's and ALL of them have noticeable carbon buildup.
MAKE SURE YOUR DEALER HAVE DOCUMENTATION OF THIS ISSUE; refrain from doing any undocumented engine DIY--as i previously mentioned before; the remedy for the problem can be a simple sensor/ECU swap, to a brand new cylinder head....
03-02-10, 08:40 AM
#58
Really in all honesty, I'm not worried too much about the documentation and whatnot.
The carbon buildup is the result of a poor PCV system. Unfortunately, PCV systems cannot be retrofitted (unless you want an external Moroso catch can mounted in the engine bay somewhere) to a motor and is an unfortunate design flaw.
Going WOT once in a while can help clean things up though so there's a good excuse to do so.
The carbon buildup is the result of a poor PCV system. Unfortunately, PCV systems cannot be retrofitted (unless you want an external Moroso catch can mounted in the engine bay somewhere) to a motor and is an unfortunate design flaw.
Going WOT once in a while can help clean things up though so there's a good excuse to do so.
03-02-10, 08:47 AM
#59
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Exactly, the engine needs some spirited driving once in a while to help with the accumulation; dropping a can of Techron regulalry would also help in the long run...
IMO, engine design flaw at best...
03-02-10, 11:18 AM
#60
Lead Lap
I thought the increased carbon build up on the exhaust pipes was due to the 93 octane fuel. Does this not contribute to that?