rominl

iTrader: (4)

bottom line though, a lot of times you still get less lease payment with mb than lexus (similar model, similarly equipped, regardless of msrp)

case in point? ls460l, loaded at 85k, the lease payment is more (or about the same) as a s550 equipped similarly msrp at around 105k

socalJD

Ok, but MB is a bad comparison. Apples to apples comparison of a similarly equipped 535i will still sticker about 10k higher than a GS350, the lease pmts will be similar, but the 5 will beat the GS in acceleration, handling and spirited driving pleasure. The GS has better toys, but many will still lease the 5 since the pmts are nearly the same.

Valueguy

Really? You can get $5,000 off MSRP on a Lexus GS with a low money factor.
What is BMW offering for the hot 535i? I checked and you won't get more than $2,000 off MSRP so the real word cost of the Lexus GS lease is better.

We can explore these facts right here is a nice, cordial manner. Do the math and see for yourself the Lexus is a great value especially with the MSD's.

rominl

iTrader: (4)

even with MSD (at least) the lease on our ls460l was still about the same as the s550. that's good enough as an example i think. i would imagine about the same thing on the e350 or the 535 for that matter

just talking about the discount off msrp is not even close to getting the payment (your definition of "real world cost" for leasing a car). look at how mb and bmw set their residuals. then look at their lease terms and also factory incentives. and if you talk about MSD on lexus, then you should look at bmw (I don't know about mb) with MSD as well. it push down the rates

talking about value of a car is a completely different subject. bottom line is (well, at least here in socal), leasing a similarly equipped mb or bmw will cost you LESS than a lexus. that's just from pure lease point of view. don't talk about keeping the car (buying it out) after the lease term, that's irrelevant. that's why so many people are leasing mb and bmw left and right here, the price is really good (i have to admit)

my sales actually told me a lot of customers go to him and say how come leasing a lexus is more expensive. he said there is nothing he can do when the residual of lexus is lower and there are no factory incentives. so some customers who are just into leasing, they might choose mb or bmw over lexus for that very same reason

Modeler

Valueguy, you're as far off base as you can get. BMW is well known for inflating residuals and offering extremely low money factors in order to subsidize leasing. On any BMW 3- or 5-series you will be able to pay much lower lease payments on the same negotiated sale price than on a Lexus. I could get the 550i that was closer to $15,000 more expensive than my GS450h for the same monthly lease payments. I went with the GS because I prefer it to the 550i.

Valueguy

I can lease a 2008 Lexus GS 350 MSRP $52,000 for $660 per month plus tax.
MF low secondary to 8 MSD's. Minimal upfront money. What would a comparably loaded 535 run? I am sure it would be at least $100 to $150 more per month because the BMW MSRP is much higher and they don't discount more than 2,000 off MSRP.

rominl

iTrader: (4)

you still dont' get it.... cap cost (negotiated price) is not the whole picture..... the residual of bmw is much higher, meaning the about you pay for your lease is much less....

Valueguy

Show me in numbers. The Lexus MF is low with MSD's and dealers will give you $5,000 off MSRP. BMW dealers are NOT discounting the 535 so the "cost"
Cap. cost minus Residual is still higher than the Lexus. In addition, the interest on the rental/leased car is based on Cap Cost plus Residual.

Here is the formula:

Cap. Cost minus Residual value/ term= monthly payment
Cap. Cost plus Residual Value X Money factor= monthly interest on vehicle

So, I do get it. I understand the S550 has an artificially high residual value and can be purchased at invoice. Then, MB offers a goof MF.

However, the BMW 535i and Mercedes E350 when equipped like the GS 350 are very expensive. BMW dealers are not discounting much off MSRP while MB dealers will sell me an E350 for $1,000 below Invoice today.

For example, here is the E350 payment:

MSRP: $62,000
Invoice minus $1,000= $57,000
MF on 12,000/36 months= .00160
Residual vaue= 54%= $33,480

Monthly Payment= $798.00 plus tax

So, I really do get it and when comparing the GS please use E Classs, 5 Series, A6, etc.

Thus, I have PROVEN the E350 is $100 more per month to lease than a GS 350. Anyone care to list the BMW 535 with similar equipment to the GS?

rominl

iTrader: (4)

in your specific case, it seems like your mb dealership isn't working on the deal. here in socal, i walk into mb dealership and don't even have to try and they gave us 5-6k off msrp already (it's been a while already so i can't remember the price). and if you want to do apple to apple, don't use MSD (especially if MSD is not available on mb)

again, in your case it might not work, but here in socal, e class and 5 series are everywhere (i almost dare to say more common than gs), and dealerships want to sell them fast. deals are everywhere.

not to discount the value of lexus, heck i am owning two freaking lexus and i think they are of very good values. but here in socal, leasing mb and bmw is usually with lower payments

Valueguy

$1,000 below invoice on a 2008 E350 with AMG package is NOT "working on the deal"? Even if I get another $1,000 off which means the dealer is earning almost nothing on the deal my lease payment is still $760 plus tax.

I dare you to show me the math in So. Cal. numbers? That is, do you know of any MB dealers giving off more than $6,000? Invoice on this car is about $4,000 off MSRP so $6,000 off means you are getting the full cash incentive and a very low lease MF.

BMW is not offering a cash incentive right now on the 535 and the MF is like
.00225 compared to Lexus .00185. Bottom line the BMW and Mercedes are more expensive even on a lease when equipped like the fully loaded GS.
ADVANTAGE GS for both purchase and lease.

rominl

iTrader: (4)

just get your gs then, no one is stopping you, i have better things to do. you believe what you want, doesn't matter to me. i know what i know and that's enough for me. you are 3000 miles away from me anyway, it's almost pointless to continue here

Valueguy

Hey, no need to get worked up. This is just a friendly discussion about a car we both like and agree is a great buy.

I looked at MB and BMW seriously before settling on the Lexus GS. Since I like all the "toys" I could not find a better deal from any BMW or Mercedes dealer on the East when compared to the Lexus. This is why I am challenging the misconception thata 535i or E350 lease is cheaper than a GS 350 whwn all have similar equipment. Yes, the BMW and Mercedes offer a lot of $$$ (you get a car with a 10 grand bigger sticker) for only $75-$100 more per month. But, with the '08 GS you get a more reliable car with a REAL option to purchase at the end of the lease for less than auction value. The MB and BMW will have residuals much greater than auction/market value making a purchase option a bad decision.