starstreak

Well they have my car and this time they gave me a '07 ES350 loaner. I swear, half the things I found wrong with my car (GS350) is fixed in this car.
1) I don't get a back ache in the drivers seat. It has the same features as my GS (sheesh, I would've hope we have more features on the gs) BUT they made the seat bottom with more foam. Its actually comfortable.
2) The radio (nonML) is better than my ML in picking up stations. Then again I have mine in the shop for this complaint.
3) Interior lights are LED too. Awe, I thought it was a GS only thing.
4) Steering wheel is streamlined. Instead of having open buttons, its like they shrink wrapped rubber around the whole button area so there is no openings around the buttons.
5) The rear seats have cup holders built in the center armrest. The GS is there too, but it slides out from the top.
6) If you have booster seats, the seatbelt is easier to put on, Its they moved the buckle an inch farther from the door. So you can put on the seatbelt easier now, as the buckle isn't under the booster seat.
7) The gas mileage is better, in the ONE day I had it, it says I've gotten 23mpg. My driving the GS the same way would say about 18-19mpg. (I'm aware this has way less HP, just stating if gas mileage is a concern..)
8) The Manumatic is the same sludgebox as the one in the GS, and theres nothing to turn off or a sport setting.
9) This loaner has just under4k. And I noticed its quiet. I don't hear any creaking sounds from the dash. Now I'm beginning to think I do have a creaking problem. Not the same as others. Most people say it makes the sound near the glass or the pillars. I swear as I hit bumps, it comes from the center dash area. as a creaking sound like two plastic parts rubbing.
10) The license plate has LED lights. So does the GS. I'm just mentioning this cuz I like that feature.
11) While I wasn't listening that hard, I swear, there is no ticking sound from the engine while idling. If you ever left your window open on the GS while idling in a drive thru, you'll know the loud sound I'm talking about.
12) The center armrest needs to be a bit more forward for your arm. But they made it smart. If you opened it, theres a lever you move at the front that pulls the cover closed. Nice.

What makes the GS better?

1) MY ES350 didn't have ML or reverse camera or parking sensors,HIDs. I miss those. (This is not a fault to the ES. Mine just didn't have those options)
2) When you step on the gas, the car moves at a slower pace. You can tell. Going up a hill, it downshifts all the way to move. While the GS downshifts, its moves like a GT car should.
3) The fit and finish on the ES feels lower. More rubber around the dash, less leather.
4) No LED rear lights.
5) It has the little fans in the seat. I think it works worse than that in the GS. I'm guessing its because of the more foam in the seat.

2thfixr

Did you notice that nearly everything is soft in the ES? The grab handle on the door is padded, the oh ***** handles are double articulated with a soft return feature, and the seats seem to have smaller side bolsters. It also has a MP3 input in the center console, a avg mpg display that can be reset at will in addition to the tank avg display on the GS, and a display showing your a/c settings separate from the nav display.

You are right, it's basically a mini GS. The main problem with the car is that it's way too soft. I'm sure they did this on purpose but it has an incredible amount of brake dive and squat on acceleration, it practically sits down when you take off. The car simply does not have the effortless power that the GS has but I still like getting ES loaners. I get to flog them around town and have a little fun.

LexFather

Mini GS in price...its longer than the GS. Both are great cars, great write-up!

starstreak

Thanks.
You're right, I just used the handles to get in/out of the car. Pretty slick. Mine didn't have the nav so I don't know how well a fully loaded unit would compair to mine. Yup even with 273HP (I think) it feels slow to move.

Just got word that the dealer is holding my car for another day. It seems it took them all day to replace the brakes.

EyeKutr

iTrader: (5)

It is a larger vehicle in all aspects. the tranny is a totally different beast, the front wheel drive makes the vehicle driving dynamics very very different.

starstreak

In normal driving, it feels more "boaty".

Oh I take it back, it does creak. It must be something normal so I'll ignore the nosie I'm hearing.

Oh it has voice dial by number, by name, etc. My GS350 does NOT have dial by number. ^%#$^% grrr! I just tried it in this ES and it recognized the numbers I was saying. Very useful.

slk_dds

To my ignorance, why would anyone want to pay extra $10-15k for a Lexus Camry?

IMO, I would get a loaded Toyota Camry V6 XLE/SE and a Yamaha R1 as well!

LexFather

50-70k people do every year for over 10 years now.
1. Reliable
2. Luxury
3. Comfortable
4. Lexus perks. (dealer, image, etc)
5. Lexus are built to 1/2 the error tolerances than a Toyota.

There is a big difference, IMO. Some do prefer to save some dough and get a Camry. IMO, the closer the Camry's price gets to 30k, the more I think "no way in hell, get the Lexus".

starstreak

I dunno. the new Camry looks and feels as good as the ES. Well, I'm sure the ES has a touch of class not on the Camry. But show a fully loaded Camry and 10k in your pocket would stop alot of ppl from getting a ES.

Lexus badge is good, but so far I'm not impressed by my dealer. Took one month to get a loaner. Took one whole day to do a 5k oil change. Took another whole day to do the dust brake pads+gas door, and they still have my car(goingon to the 3rd day) to do aiming of HID lights, ML radio reception (I bet they say its fine), Driver side seat belt locking for no reason.

2thfixr

I'm not so sure that people who purchase Camrys and ES350s are your typical R1 riders.

starstreak

Lol! Yeah, my grandma rides a Harley. She loves her Camry by they way.

MPLexus301

iTrader: (3)

I have extensively driven both a GS 300 and ES 350, and added my comparison here:

https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=296019

We had some similar points and the ES definitely has it's downfalls but I don't think I could justify spending an additional $10+K on a GS, especially with that terribly awkward/artificial/unsettled steering feel that tends to ruin any sort of spirited driving, which in effect, really reduces any advantage it has over the ES 350.

Yang1815

iTrader: (1)

I think the 10k is worth the RWD/AWD and more power. Not to mention the driving characteristic and feel/quality of the material in the 3GS.

Keep in mind the ES is based on the Camry and so far, quite a few 07 owners have reported transmission flares.

MPLexus301

iTrader: (3)

To each his own, but the GS has not been without it's problems either. I am not necessarily trying to make a case for either car and I do not drive a GS or ES so I have no partiality, but after driving both I feel like Lexus needs to put more effort into making the GS a drivers car with a sportier personality, because to myself and many other people, there simply isn't $10K worth of difference between the two. Day in and day out, they drive very much the same. The author himself calls it a "GS-lite".

slk_dds

Totally agree with Yang1815!!!

IMO, if they do offer sport sedan either in RWD/AWD in Toyota brand, I would not pay extra just for the brand name.

I was once young and stupid...been there... done that!!! Used to pursuit name brand clothings (Versace, Armani, LV, ...) now the only brand of cloth I wear is called SCRUB!!!

My initial comment was not to offend the ES owners, but just my personal thought.

WANTS V.S. NEEDS ... A never ending battles...