2006 Lexus GS300 or 2006 BMW 530i?
#16
Originally Posted by spwolf
As usual, always good to test all competitors and then see what matches your interest better.
p.s. I dont see how will BMW feel like an rocket - past BMW had large torque for their HP ratings, so they felt fast. However new 530 has only marginally better torque and a lot more hp than previous 530. What you end up is GS300 having 10lbs of torque more than 530 even with having 10hp less... So tables have turned and I wouldnt expect it to rocket away at GS300, not at all.
You should really test it yourself and see how it works out. If you are after speed as priority, maybe M35 Sport? Or you can probably get GS300 AWD for the same price of 530 RWD?
In any case, having so many goodie options is great... E350 is here as well!
p.s. I dont see how will BMW feel like an rocket - past BMW had large torque for their HP ratings, so they felt fast. However new 530 has only marginally better torque and a lot more hp than previous 530. What you end up is GS300 having 10lbs of torque more than 530 even with having 10hp less... So tables have turned and I wouldnt expect it to rocket away at GS300, not at all.
You should really test it yourself and see how it works out. If you are after speed as priority, maybe M35 Sport? Or you can probably get GS300 AWD for the same price of 530 RWD?
In any case, having so many goodie options is great... E350 is here as well!
BMW tends to under rate its engine. This is very obvious when you go dyno their car. Typical BMW will pull close to 10% more than what they claim.
Not sure if BMW's powertrain loss is better than Lexus, but even at same HP rating on the engine, to the wheel, BMW will pull more.
As far as both cars goes, I will take BMW over Lexus any day. I will go test drive a new GS. But most likely will be dissappointed with ultra boosted steering. Lexus so far has never made a car that has great steering response (except the IS- which is still a tad too light). BMW just tune the cars better.
#17
Lexus Connoisseur
Originally Posted by chiawei
I will disagree with this.
BMW tends to under rate its engine. This is very obvious when you go dyno their car. Typical BMW will pull close to 10% more than what they claim.
Not sure if BMW's powertrain loss is better than Lexus, but even at same HP rating on the engine, to the wheel, BMW will pull more.
As far as both cars goes, I will take BMW over Lexus any day. I will go test drive a new GS. But most likely will be dissappointed with ultra boosted steering. Lexus so far has never made a car that has great steering response (except the IS- which is still a tad too light). BMW just tune the cars better.
BMW tends to under rate its engine. This is very obvious when you go dyno their car. Typical BMW will pull close to 10% more than what they claim.
Not sure if BMW's powertrain loss is better than Lexus, but even at same HP rating on the engine, to the wheel, BMW will pull more.
As far as both cars goes, I will take BMW over Lexus any day. I will go test drive a new GS. But most likely will be dissappointed with ultra boosted steering. Lexus so far has never made a car that has great steering response (except the IS- which is still a tad too light). BMW just tune the cars better.
#18
Guest
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Originally Posted by chiawei
I will disagree with this.
BMW tends to under rate its engine. This is very obvious when you go dyno their car. Typical BMW will pull close to 10% more than what they claim.
Not sure if BMW's powertrain loss is better than Lexus, but even at same HP rating on the engine, to the wheel, BMW will pull more.
As far as both cars goes, I will take BMW over Lexus any day. I will go test drive a new GS. But most likely will be dissappointed with ultra boosted steering. Lexus so far has never made a car that has great steering response (except the IS- which is still a tad too light). BMW just tune the cars better.
BMW tends to under rate its engine. This is very obvious when you go dyno their car. Typical BMW will pull close to 10% more than what they claim.
Not sure if BMW's powertrain loss is better than Lexus, but even at same HP rating on the engine, to the wheel, BMW will pull more.
As far as both cars goes, I will take BMW over Lexus any day. I will go test drive a new GS. But most likely will be dissappointed with ultra boosted steering. Lexus so far has never made a car that has great steering response (except the IS- which is still a tad too light). BMW just tune the cars better.
#19
Originally Posted by chiawei
I will disagree with this.
BMW tends to under rate its engine. This is very obvious when you go dyno their car. Typical BMW will pull close to 10% more than what they claim.
Not sure if BMW's powertrain loss is better than Lexus, but even at same HP rating on the engine, to the wheel, BMW will pull more.
As far as both cars goes, I will take BMW over Lexus any day. I will go test drive a new GS. But most likely will be dissappointed with ultra boosted steering. Lexus so far has never made a car that has great steering response (except the IS- which is still a tad too light). BMW just tune the cars better.
BMW tends to under rate its engine. This is very obvious when you go dyno their car. Typical BMW will pull close to 10% more than what they claim.
Not sure if BMW's powertrain loss is better than Lexus, but even at same HP rating on the engine, to the wheel, BMW will pull more.
As far as both cars goes, I will take BMW over Lexus any day. I will go test drive a new GS. But most likely will be dissappointed with ultra boosted steering. Lexus so far has never made a car that has great steering response (except the IS- which is still a tad too light). BMW just tune the cars better.
I'm looking forward to reading the magazine reviews and seeing the numbers that they get. I forget which mag (Motor Trend??) did it but you probably know that last month there was a sport/luxury sedan shoot-out and the 530 came in 3rd behind the Acura TL and Infiniti M. The GS was not included - much to my dismay! Having driven these cars and knowing that the mags tend to favor raw performance over refinement I would expect that the M would still take top place if the GS were included but I would be quite surprised if the RL were to beat the GS. I'm expecting that the mags will be very positive on the GS when they finally test it.
#20
Originally Posted by chiawei
But most likely will be dissappointed with ultra boosted steering. Lexus so far has never made a car that has great steering response (except the IS- which is still a tad too light). BMW just tune the cars better.
Not according to "Automobile" who tested the GS300 and here is what they say about its steering and handling:
The power steering - provides a firm handshake with the road. Handling trumps ride on the priority list, so body motion quickly settles after any disturbance
The GS has been shifted from a serene softie into a snarling 5-series and E-class threat
#21
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I wish the mags wouldn't torque brake the cars when they do the 0-60 runs. Who in the world torque brakes their sedans when launching. Edmunds got 5.7s for the M45, 6.4s for the GS430, and 7.5s for the RL; I believe they are like CR, they don't torque brake.
"If you are after speed as priority, maybe M35 Sport?"
Actually, I think a regular non-sport version will be better for straight line acceleration. It's a little lighter than the Sport version, and the 18"s will be better than the 19"s for straight line.
I don't think BMW understates hp. Their relatively good acceleration times are due to lightest-in-class weight and gearing.
"If you are after speed as priority, maybe M35 Sport?"
Actually, I think a regular non-sport version will be better for straight line acceleration. It's a little lighter than the Sport version, and the 18"s will be better than the 19"s for straight line.
I don't think BMW understates hp. Their relatively good acceleration times are due to lightest-in-class weight and gearing.
#22
Originally Posted by jrock65
I wish the mags wouldn't torque brake the cars when they do the 0-60 runs. Who in the world torque brakes their sedans when launching. Edmunds got 5.7s for the M45, 6.4s for the GS430, and 7.5s for the RL; I believe they are like CR, they don't torque brake.
"If you are after speed as priority, maybe M35 Sport?"
Actually, I think a regular non-sport version will be better for straight line acceleration. It's a little lighter than the Sport version, and the 18"s will be better than the 19"s for straight line.
I don't think BMW understates hp. Their relatively good acceleration times are due to lightest-in-class weight and gearing.
"If you are after speed as priority, maybe M35 Sport?"
Actually, I think a regular non-sport version will be better for straight line acceleration. It's a little lighter than the Sport version, and the 18"s will be better than the 19"s for straight line.
I don't think BMW understates hp. Their relatively good acceleration times are due to lightest-in-class weight and gearing.
I saw the review from Edmunds/Inside Line that you mention. The numbers are strange.
So many things affect these numbers. Even the altitude that the test is done at makes a big difference due to air pressure. Air pressure has a significant effect on combustion intake. Tests run in Atlanta (at 1000 ft above sea level) would be worse than in Orlando. Tests in Denver will be even worse. But all cars will be affected about the same.
Ps - the new GS300 is about 50lbs heavier than the 530. Both are very light compared to the others in the class.
#23
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There are many good points listed in this thread and we will just have to see how the new 2006 530i is when it is released. My BMW dealer tells me April Production for June Delivery.
In the meantime, here is one of the very first reviews of the new 2006 BMW 530xi (new engine, etc....link below):
http://www.canadiandriver.com/articles/ly/06_530xi.htm
In the meantime, here is one of the very first reviews of the new 2006 BMW 530xi (new engine, etc....link below):
http://www.canadiandriver.com/articles/ly/06_530xi.htm
#24
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Originally Posted by lexguynj
You have got to love the V8's, so consider the Lexus GS430, BMW 545 (soon to be 550) and the MB E500? The V8's in this class are amazing and worth it.
The M & AMG versions are even more incredible too, but way too expensive.
The M & AMG versions are even more incredible too, but way too expensive.
I agree that the M & AMG are way overpriced but Lexus does not offer a car in this group.
My take on "too expensive" is a vendor have every right to charge what ever he/she wants if someone is willing to pay that price for it.
#25
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Originally Posted by ktiger
My point is that the Lexus V8's are just as good as the bimmer or the benz so why go with the more expensive less luxurious (before anyone gets on their high horse, it is my opinion that no one beats Lexus' interiors) least reliable cars.
I agree that the M & AMG are way overpriced but Lexus does not offer a car in this group.
My take on "too expensive" is a vendor have every right to charge what ever he/she wants if someone is willing to pay that price for it.
I agree that the M & AMG are way overpriced but Lexus does not offer a car in this group.
My take on "too expensive" is a vendor have every right to charge what ever he/she wants if someone is willing to pay that price for it.
At this time Lexus will still have it's 4.3 V8 with 300 HP, which is why they should pull the trigger soon on introducing their new V8 with more HP. That is why we are all feeling that the 2006 GS430 is just a blink away from being changed to GS450, etc.....
Lexus has to be involved in the HP wars or at least be caught up to be competitive. The curren Lexus 4.3 Liter Engine has to be updated soon. I remember getting the first one for the 2001 GS430 and it's about time!
#26
Lexus Connoisseur
Originally Posted by lexguynj
At this time Lexus will still have it's 4.3 V8 with 300 HP, which is why they should pull the trigger soon on introducing their new V8 with more HP. That is why we are all feeling that the 2006 GS430 is just a blink away from being changed to GS450, etc.....
Lexus has to be involved in the HP wars or at least be caught up to be competitive. The curren Lexus 4.3 Liter Engine has to be updated soon. I remember getting the first one for the 2001 GS430 and it's about time!
#27
Its kind of funny - when BMW had smaller hp ratings but larger torque, everyone pointed it out - now that Lexus has smaller hp and large torque, BMW lovers forget that part of the story.
There is nothing magical about BMW power ratings, nor does BMW understate their ratings (rather some other manufacturers overstate theirs). What they usually have is car that weights less, is geared shorted (0-60) and has a lot of torque. Well, GS300 now has more torque than 330i (upcoming one, current one is way behind), is also short geared and weights almost the same - hence 0-60 times are now the same.
Same for GS430 and 545i - torque ratings are similar (slightly at lower rpm from Lexus), weight is the same and 545i Auto even has 17" wheels standard to improve acceleration, yet is 0.1 slower from 0-60 than GS.
So you gonna have tought time explaining how 545i is "faster", when it is... not. And 0-60 shows only small part of the story, it is passing times that matter (60-80, 80-120, etc).
There is nothing magical about BMW power ratings, nor does BMW understate their ratings (rather some other manufacturers overstate theirs). What they usually have is car that weights less, is geared shorted (0-60) and has a lot of torque. Well, GS300 now has more torque than 330i (upcoming one, current one is way behind), is also short geared and weights almost the same - hence 0-60 times are now the same.
Same for GS430 and 545i - torque ratings are similar (slightly at lower rpm from Lexus), weight is the same and 545i Auto even has 17" wheels standard to improve acceleration, yet is 0.1 slower from 0-60 than GS.
So you gonna have tought time explaining how 545i is "faster", when it is... not. And 0-60 shows only small part of the story, it is passing times that matter (60-80, 80-120, etc).
#28
Lexus Connoisseur
Originally Posted by spwolf
So you gonna have tought time explaining how 545i is "faster", when it is... not. And 0-60 shows only small part of the story, it is passing times that matter (60-80, 80-120, etc).
#29
Lexus Connoisseur
Originally Posted by DrexLex
I agree with spwolf that passing time is more important in everyday driving.
Last edited by flipside909; 03-05-05 at 08:23 PM.
#30
Originally Posted by flipside909
Hmm should have been more clear. I agree with spwolf's assessment. Just was pointing out 0-60 accelleration times and how those fractions of a second are negligible in a real world side by side comparison.
The distance travelled in the first case--very roughly, is 242 ft, while for the second it is 264 ft (using a straightline acceleration curve). That means there's something like 20 feet offset between the two cars at the end. (If I'm at all close to right this time!)