Aw, shucks doug, I'm flattered. I may not put things correctly but my problem is when anyone rolls in saying some other brand (inevitably bimmer, merc, or far less often, audi) is across the board better than Lexus and insinuates (and I don't say you ever did) that you would have to be a boob to buy a Lexus. The truth is that any car make will never get 100% of a market because it doesn't provide the solution to all buyers. Whether it is performance, style, cost, reliability, or color, people are different and look for different things. At any given point in time, we make the choice that seems best and live with it. Usually with our personal reality distortion fields fully in tact to further justify our purchase and make us feel how wise we are.

I think we do a lot of beating up on Lexus for not offering a bimmer blend of performance and the truth is you can always go buy a bimmer. Or merc, or whatever. And Lexus either gets concerned over the loss of the sale and changes product to bring you back, or they don't. I really think that Lexus is far more interested in keeping the Lexus customer than taking away from the other marques. And I have to say that I am somewhat surprised how this thread has gone. Throwing out the comments from those who don't even own a Lexus, the majority of the comments are for evolutionary changes. They may be significant from the manufacturer's standpoint, but we seem to say that the GS needs some modification, not start over. And that from a group who would have to represent the most ardent performance oriented customer that Lexus has. I have a feeling that by and large we won't be disappointed. We really don't have all that high a set of expectations. Still think AWD on the next GS would be a big stretch.

 

Amen to this. No one is trying to keep anyone who can afford it from buying an M5 or E55 and more power to you. And you know what? Someone is going to have a faster car than yours. Maybe it's a Porsche, maybe it's a vette, but someone is going to have a faster car. So what's the point? The point is that if you want to play in that arena - please do so. But I get very mixed emotions when I see posts that say that Lexus MUST put 400hp in the next GS or Lexus MUST have innovative styling in the next GS. They don't any more than BMW MUST make the M5 and sell it for less than $50K. But there would go that exclusivity that is so cherished. The truth is they should just take a 525 and put an M5 badge on it and sell it for $100K and you won't see very many of them around. And is there any point to that? Of course not.

jpa2400 hit it right on the head IMO when he said that when you bring the M5 and E55 into the discussion about the next GS, you have just gone to the Sci Fi Channel. The GS is not playing in that arena, neither is the volume five series or the volume E class. And as for exclusivity, in silicon valley you have more exclusivity with a Solara than you do with an M3. If the guesstimates on the M5 are correct, it looks like it will be about 90K to put one in your garage here in Cal. And at that point I believe a lot of the discussion about them is from the guys in the big hats sitting around the campfire talking but there ain't a cow to be seen. Thank goodness that most of the people here understand this and have no such expectations for the next GS. It is always nice to daydream but this is just not what really can be expected of the next GS. Besides, if AWD is as desirable as a few people indicate, and it is going to make it to the next GS, that leaves the M5 and E55 in the background.

 

"The E500 has an evolutionary design, the quality of the materials used is significatnly better, and within a year will hae most kinks out of it. I find it hard to believe that a corporate attitude in Toyota/Lexus where they would just want to have a car even EQUAL to that of hte e500/545 will get it anywhere even close to the success of the currentl model GS. Even if they do not compete with the m5/e55 they MUST go above and beyond in most every aspect"

What exactly did MB do to make the E 500 so revolutionary? A major body change? That’s not revolutionary. I don’t know everything about the car, but tell me what they did aside from looks to make it so special.

Same with the new 5 series, aside from the style of the car, what is so ground breaking about it?

Yes stock, some of these cars are made to handle better, if you had performance in mind, but some are also more plush which will fit an entirely different group.

How many people get sold on power alone? A TON. The NEW E 500 is right on par with the old GS 4xx and the NEW 5 is right in the ball park also.

So limited runs aside and comparing apples to apples, it will come down to style and driving preference. I think they are all outstanding vehicles, but it will really come down to style and driving preference because these cars for the most part, all offer the same thing.

 

Amen for that.
no offense guys
the roads here are filled with mercs and bmw. most seem to be indulged or infactuated with the social status or self image of the mercs and the bmw here.

 

First off, you seem to disregard details. i said EVOLUTIONARY, NOT revolutionary. The W210 E-class is what gave Lexus thoughts into our current design. It was a great design, and now they just tweak it and still make it a very attractive design.
The benz I believe has a lot of technological things they have added, most are options, but it makes the car very appealing. Like I said quality of materials used is significanly better, I believe now putting encompassing the crowd that would normally go to Lexus.
Power like you said is on par, but with adjustable suspension that help for a sportier ride on demand.

So...if power is the same as my current GS4..and everything else is significantly better, of course I would switch...EVEN if it was just for the E500 (but like ive said, im in the market for an upgrade).
The NEXT GS will ahve to beat all of those little things from aesthetics, to technological, future must-haves, to suspension, AND exceed current performance for me to consider lexus again. In other words, they will once again have to be hte talk of the town, and I dont see it happening.

 

I pay attention to details just fine, I could send an insult your way like you tried, but I will pass this time.

Your talking about something evolving, that’s great, I am not. I am asking what did they do that was such a radical change that upped the bar so high? Aside from changing the body style.

From what I see, they did nothing with the their standard line that made me say WOW, aside from change some sheet metal. Everyone is acting like the GS is so far behind when in reality, it isn’t. I don’t see anyone doing anything really special, so if the new GS is just some upgraded sheet metal with a few extra’s, why are they so far off in the marketplace with the current E 500 and new 5 series (not including AMG or M)

 

Yeah, like heated seats. Same as the bimmer seven. I think doug_999 had the pricing of the new five about perfect. But does anyone here expect or want the next GS to cost more than the five or E? Really, we know that the standard spec of the GS is going to match several options for the German cars and still be in all likelihood in the range of what, ten percent less expensive? So if you want what the German cars offer, be my guess. But that sneaky Lexus approach is providing a reliable GS with a very reasonable level of performance and equipment at a better price, and there is Lexus in a nutshell.

If the extra money is worth it, go for what you want. But like most people are saying here, what they expect and want is a very evolutionary approach. The current GS does not compete performance wise with either the M5 or E55 and the new one won't either. As for tech like I-drive or the new (and optional) electro steering on the five? Probably won't justify their increased cost to me. Sure glad everyone's earnings have kept up to toss that extra premium on these things. My 2k1 GS430 was $50K to put in my garage in June 2k1. If I fall in love with the new five, I will probably be looking at $63-65K to put it in my garage. Pretty healthy for less than three years and yes I know the GS was cheaper than the five when I bought it although it is amazing how people back then like to say that a 540 wasn't that much more.

 

OK, so I guess this is a vote for an adjustable suspension. I personally am not a big fan of the factory adjustable suspensions. They are very costly to maintain and give you a lot less flexibility for modding. And as you say, the power is on par. The E500 has 302hp which just matches our "old" GS's and according to Edmund's, it gives them 0-60 of 5.8 sec also no revolutionary ground here (as meaningless as 0-60 is anyway). As for materials, merc used to be really something special but that has been a long time ago. But say you call this a draw. So it seems like you are saying some of the unnamed options and an adjustable suspension make the difference for you such that you would pay the premium to get the merc. Probaly fine with Lexus, have a good time. Just stay away from Sables in parking lots, could be hard to tell which car is yours.

 

I cant believe im having this conversation with fellow GS owners. And here I thought we all bought the GS for similar reasons...
Anyway...youre right..I WILL NOT buy an e500 bc too many people will have it...That is why im upgrading to an e55. And i never asked for a standard GS with m5 performance...i just asked for a limited production performance GS.

Now price..I hear you wont spend the 63-65k on the new 5 series. I was SHOCKED as well when i started seeing how much similar equipped cars were going for in comparison to back in 98. But if you think that a fully loaded next gen GS4 WONT cost at LEAST 60, ive got a bridge to sell you.

Now...some of the nice little tech things im talking about are like the adaptive headlights...that use nav data to turn the headlights in the direction you are turning...makes sense that thelight should go that way, no? As well as dynamic seats, which will adjust to help stabilize you through turns...these will usually also include massagers and aircooled seats.

Keyless go is another thing i love the idea of. just keeping the key on me..walk upt ot he car, and it opens..press a button and it starts...press it again it stops..walk out and it locks..beautiful.

And im supposed to expect THESE from a company that couldnt even put in memory adjustable seats on teh passenger side?

In all honesty, i have been VERY happy with my GS. But my priorities have not changed from when i bought the GS4 in 98. My priority was give me 300 horses, a sedan...fully loaded with all the perks..and one that one be a dime a dozen. Im just asking for more horses and all the nice perks...I can afford more now than i dd in 98...and considering that id spend easy 65k on a car that is in the same bracket as my current one...id rather just put another 10k down and take on a higher payment. Since we all know lexus wont enter the super sedan market, i am just speaking as someone who would like lexus to make another great product who was satsified as a first time buyer. I just think its a shame that they wont provide an option to keep this customer.

 

Maybe you should send me whatever info you have on that bridge. The GS hasn't yet come very close to 5/E pricing and, like I said, I think doug_999 got the pricing right, so I guess I would be somewhat surprised if a fully loaded next gen GS goes well over 60K. If it does, than the 5/E loaded are going to be 70, hmmmm, maybe that isn't so far out. Then again, according to Edmunds, the E55 is $77K base price right now so if I were you I would rethink that ten grand more to wind up being more like twenty grand to put it in your garage. And if the tradeoff is appropriate for you, I know you will be happy. I just don't think Lexus is going to lose any sleep over it.

 

Hey, this is great. So I went back to Edmunds and loaded an E55 up. Didn't see the massaging seats but they did have the ventilated ones. So what can you get it up to? $88K. With tax and license, and I am sure you can get a dealer installed option or two, you can easily leave a whole $100K bill there. And it will be exclusive. Can the comment about twenty grand more than a loaded next gen GS, I would say over thirty five grand more. Oh to need and be able to afford such exclusivity!

jpa2400 - Are you getting the feeling no one read (or understood) your post?

 

Just go to mbusa.com to build one yourself to see. Base price is 76k, however, as has been noted, witha ll the goodies, it will go much more. I personally will not get the panorama roof, but I will get most every other option and it comes to about 84k. Taxes, I would figure out, but you would also pay taxes on the GS...the only thing u should take into consideration is the tax on teh difference and maybe a couple grand more on guzzler.
For those in cali..i know about the markups out there, but id be paying sticker...

BTW..teh 10k extra grand i was speaking of was just an addition to my downpayment..i DID acknowledge that I would also have a higher payment...and luckily I will be able to pay it.
We got a lot for out 50k (I paid 46,5 for the GS4 in 98)...and I have come to realize those days are gone. A fully loaded GS wont hit 70...no way..but it will surpass the 60k barrier pretty easily i feel. WIth the E55..ill have a car im gonna be happy with until...the NEXT gen e55. Extra cost, but itll hold me 6-7 years without boredom just in time for a restyle, and i would have been done paying the car off for 2 years by then.

 

"jpa2400 - Are you getting the feeling no one read (or understood) your post? "

Oh not just a feeling

 

I like keys. You got to take em from me if u want it. With the keyless thing, you can cap someone, drag their body and open and drive the car away.

I am sure the new GS will be close to 60k fully loaded. BTW, we got stuff they don't have too like:
Mark Levinson
NAV system that won't make you feel stupid
Optitron gauges

Huh ,not much I guess

The GS was a turning point for Lexus in 1998. Up till that point, Lexus was chasing Benz. A funny thing happened. BMW turned hot! Everyone now knows and wants a M3/5. So Lexus went after BMW (as has every manufacuter from Lincoln/Caddy to Kia/Acura). The IS followed in 2001. So Lexus has cars to appeal to just about everyone.COrrect. Germany COULD NOT and CANNOT match a GS 400 under 50,000 with anything. They could not. The 5 was the only German car performance wise to meet/beat it. The A6 came in the SLOOOOW 200hp model then, the E is a cruiser. The GS was amazing the press cause it "cornered like a coupe" and was the fastest accelerating automatic sedan for the SAME PRICE as the outgoing GS 300. But the GS DID NOT scare Benz into any M5 or E 55.

BMW and Benz then came out with their M5s, E55s (which would have came out REGARDLESS of the GS 400). The last M5 was a killer I-6 with a manual good for sub 6 second sprints. Benz BOUGHT AMG to produce in-house performance cars (great move). Heck Jag came out with a new supercharged XJ-R to take the fastest accelerating title from the GS 1 month later (then the E55 took it from the XJR).

Someone stated, NO ONE buys or DRIVES these M or AMG cars which is true. They are RARE beasts, volume wise (though newer models sell hella more then earlier models). These M/AMG cars produce a HALO effect on BMW and BENZ that makes the BRAND seem like OOOOOOOOOOOHHHH down to the C-class horrible hatchback and 323. AMG/M cars are example of the TOP of the companies TECH and CAPABILITES. Much of it comes down to the cheaper cars sooner or later.

 

I think the new GS with a V8 like we have now will be right in the range of 55-56k, with everything we have now, Nav\ML.

AWD drive would start moving up toward 60 and IF they do a AWD Hybrid I could see it reach 60 or a tad over. With the non-UL Ls 430 pricing, I don't think they want to push the 60k range without some big time extra's, like AWD if they offer it and or the hybrid option if it comes out on future models.

I don't think they need to move the price up to have people feel like it is comparable to Germans, although they could and up profit margins, I don't know if they will do that.