y2kgs

It seems that lately we all have been reading articles about the new GS430 from different magazines.
One question I have is why are they trying so hard to bring down the GS. Sure, the GS400 is not the
Fastest four door sedan but like someone had mention, they wanted this car to carry the speed but
Also provide the driver along with the passengers the comfort that only can delivers. I’ve read reviews
About the GS4 against the 540i-E430-CLK 430 to see which car comes out on top. Before I start,
Let me mention that we all have different taste in style which was the main reason that the GS4 came in
Second place awhile back ago. As far as performance goes, lets just say that when my car was stock.
I have beaten 4 540i manual and one 540 auto both on street and freeway. So, lets not go there with
The Bimmers. As for the Benz, I’ve also taken on the E430 and the CLK 430. All these car are nice
But lets say that they were looking at my rear bumper. Plus if we really wanted more power, there are
Mods out there for us to get.
As for the M5, sure let me sell my house first cause its running around 100,000 just for a BMW. Why!
I would rather invest 10,000 for a SC and smoke the **** out of the M5 along with all the other cars.
One more thing, how long do you really think that these Bimmers and Benz last. Everyone knows that
These cars are not too reliable but you don’t see them mention this in any of their reviews. right!!! Can
You say kiss ***………

What I am really getting at is that we got the car for the looks, luxury and performance put together or
That was my reason for getting it. I love my Lexus and seems that everyone else does cause you see
More and more Lexus on the street than before and if I want more power. Than I’ll get the mods to do
So.

Over all, if Lexus wanted to they would of made a GS that would kill the M5 but that was not their over
All intentions when the GS came out.

Francis K

I like your comments, they're all true, Lexus is the only all around great vehicle, not just great in one area and lacking in another, Lexus is in a class of it's own and still just beggining to get started.

theanimala

Believe me, I am not very happy about these so called 'reviews', but I do not get bothered by them. I have never been one to do things that other people do, I generally try to blaze my own trail. I bought the GS because it is the car that I always loved and the car that I wanted. I do not car what other people think. They can be happy with their BMW or Merc, great for them. To me, I have the best car available with the features I want.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

(Doh - just lost a huge amount of text I just typed in - does 'escape' empty text boxes on all forms!? That sucks.)

Anyway, here goes again...

Writers for car magazines usually have a lot of car history in their brains, and changing their perceptions isn't easy. Most of them (justifiably) LOVE BMWs, and the GS4x0 handling does NOT match the 5 series. They also like that stuff about 'history' and 'tradition' and 'marques' and all that crap I left England to get away from. It's hard to change their minds.

But most of us here bought GS's because we're rebelious and/or we recognize its unique combination of looks, power, comfort, and reliability.

But L-Tuned is a good start, and look at how much Lexus is changing... the GS4x0, the IS300, and now the SC430 which has no competition.

Getting back to reviews though, Lexus will need to offer a factory sports package to do better, but the signs are positive that they're heading in that direction. Also, don't forget, that like most Japanese companies, Lexus/Toyota has a VERY active arsenal of things available in their domestic market (V300, lots of TRD pieces, etc.), so they're in good shape to do it.

So don't worry too much about the reviews, I know it's tough to read.

D-MAN63

I'm telling ya, reviewer and critics CAN'T STAND the fact that a 11 year old lexus company is TAKING OVER the car industry and leaving the "big timers" benz's bmw's etc in THE DUST.!

KayGee

Magazine reviews (other than Consumer Reports) never mention reliability. That was my number 1 priority when shopping for my current vehicle. Sure looks, price and power mean something also, but with everyone's hectic lives, it is very reassuring to not have unscheduled visits to the service department to worry about. Just my $.02.

KKelly

Uhmmm, my 330hp M5 has 130k miles on it and runs just fine. I know several owners of M5s with over 150k miles. I have two friends with 635i's, one with 175k and one with 250k. I don't know what you are talking about. Any car will last if you take car of it. I have had to do a few things to my wife's '94 Maxima as the miles got up there but these aren't reliablity issues just maintenance (window motor, exhaust manifold).

I think that reliability, whatever that word means, is certainly a factor but use Consumer Reports for that. The other magazines test performance and the GS IS supposed to be a sports sedan. I think Lexus has decided there is a niche there that wants a little softer car so they have offered it.

Dieselman, please cite some evidence of Lexus "taking over" . Some sales figures from last year (Edmunds):

"The majority of buyers will be enchanted with their purchase, but judging by last year's sales figures of a little more than 6,000 units (in comparison, 18,500 GS 300s were purchased, BMW sold close to 40,000 units of the 5 Series and 50,000 of you chose the E-Class)"

Certainly they have significant market share but they aren't leaving anyone in the dust.

theanimala

KKelly, here you go, jackass.

Luxury Sedan Automobile Segment.

Luxury automobiles are targeted at the demographically important baby boom generation. The U.S. automobile companies are losing in this segment to Toyota's Lexus Division (No.1) and Mercedes-Benz (No.2) among others. U.S. luxury vehicles are not stylish and they appeal to a folksy older generations in their golden years. Indeed, even German luxury automobile manufacturers are feeling the pressure from Japanese luxury brands. Toyota's Lexus brand became the top selling luxury car in sales in year 2000. This is largely attributed to the introduction of two new premium luxury automobiles. But, Japanese manufacturers have traditionally offered product line extensions to increase their market share.

From
link

Another one... link

I would like to think that #1 selling is a bit more then significant market share. I would rather save that claim for MBW...

I'm sure you are not too familiar with the term 'reliability', that is why you drive your 'reliable' BMW. Believe me, I like Bimmers, but if you think it is nearly has reliable as a Lexus, they you are just fooling yourself. You may have gotten lucky on your M, just as some Lexus owners could be unlucky in that they may have some problems. But statistically speaking, you cannot get close to the quality of these vehicles. Look at JD power, or any authority other then your limited experience to show you the truth.

KKelly

What's with the name calling? Should people only post if they agree with you?

I was speaking about the GS in terms of sales. My quick search of the web reveals these numbers with each companies SUV offerings out of the mix (I don't extend my brand loyalty to the X5):

BMW: 152,703
MBZ: 137,000
Lexus: 101,441

Still very good market share though.


Here is my limited experience (and I admit it is):

Firt BMW in 1995 bought it with 50k, drove it to 107k in three years (fuel pump and electric fan replaced due to plastic bad getting stuck in it). Routine maintenance every 15k.

Bought my '91 M5 in 1998 with 81k, other than go fast stuff and brakes due to track days, I have done regular maintenance and replaced the a/c and a few light bulbs (it sprang a few minor oil leaks when I switched it to synthetic with I figured it would but thought it was worth it).

Lexus: My dad bought his LS400 new in 1991, currently has 150k. He has had some work done, don't recall what but generally a great (but boring) car. It needs new shocks but he doesn't believe me -- bottoms out like crazy with passengers.

Friend had an ES300 that was a nightmare after 40kmiles. After two transmissions by 60k she decided to sell it.

I don't dispute a Lexus is generally less expensive to maintain and has great build quality.

However, it does appear that the IS has taken the sport sedan torch from the GS. Lexus is quick to respond to the outcry and offer a manual transmission in the IS but still does not offer one in the GS. The GS has not been offered with a more sport tuned suspension (though I know the aftermarket can fix this quite quickly). I think they know exactly who their customers are.

theanimala

Sorry about the name calling, it wasn't mean as much as obnoxious, still my bad. I do agree with you that the 5 series far outsells the GS, but I see that as a good point. I personally like knowing that I drive a car that I do not see around every corner (of course, the 5 series isn't EVERYWHERE, that spot is saved for the Acura TL).

I do not disagree that the IS has taken the torch from the GS. I don't believe anyone who was seriously considering a GS would go to an IS. I see it as Lexus's attempt to gain more market share by attracting a younger / cheaper audience. The GS to me was always about sport and luxury in an equal mix. The LS has absolutely nothing sporty about it at all. Every car has it's compromises (except a car like the Viper), and I see the GS as the perfect compromise for me and most of the others on this board. If the GS came out in a manual, I bet sales of it would be very insignificant.

That sucks that your friends have had problems with their Lexi. I work with several people with 3 series Bimmers, and every single one of them has had to deal with problems that had their car's out of their hands for at least an entire day at a time. They have also had to deal with dealer treatment that at best would be considered rude (most likely this area). All that matters to me is that I am happy with my purchase, and that you are happy with yours.

Harrier

The debate goes on...

Let's keep from getting hostile with one another. Reviews are reviews...no one is without a bias. The only review that matters is yours.

y2kgs

Kkelly

I’m glad to hear that your Bimmer has 152.000+ miles and still going strong but the point I am making is that the
GS along with other Lexus models will out last Bimmers, Benz and makes in the market. Plus, to be honest
With you, you know that BMW and Benz don’t last that long and will loss a lot of their power with added
Miles. Why do you think theres some many listing of used Bimmers for sale everyday. You are always welcome
To speak but lets all be honest here. As for the review, I really don’t care what they have to say cause its all BS.
That’s way all reviews have different numbers and rating for the same car over and over. I’m I right or what!!!!!

As for your friend and this ES, all manufactures has some let say lemons but if that’s the case, BMW must have more
Than all manufactures put together. Your asking why we are putting down Bimmers and Benz but at the same time.
Your doing the same by putting down Lexus. Plus, its hard to compare the GS with the M5 cause of the price
Difference. Your talking about a 60+K difference just in price and still it not that much faster than the GS.
So as for the performance, we all can invest 10K and kill this so call M5 monster along with other high end
Models.

By the way, not to sure if you were the one, awhile back. One was posted that the Bimmers were better and faster
Than the GS4. So, we were not the ones who started but will be the ones that will end it if needed. I personally like
BMW and Benz but are way over priced for what you get.

To everyone on this board, we all are here to get answer and feedbacks for all Lexus models. Its great cause we all
Share different ideas and have a chance to chat with fellow Lexus owners for all our needs. We are not hear to trash
Other manufactures but when one comes along and start all this ****. Do you really think we are just going to stand and
Not do anything? Please…………
Lets just end it by saying that everyone different and have different taste whether with clothes or cars. We can’t judge them
Just because they don’t see what you may see but just to let it be. Lets just enjoy our cars and get the most out of our times
When we are not working or studying.

KKelly

Y2kGs,

Please read the posts. I did not criticize the GS at all. I simply do not agree with your conclusion that BMW's don't last long. More to the point, what are we talking about here, an engine rebuild? There is no doubt that some recent BMW's have had small problems, some have not. Lexus is no doubt better at that and customer service. However, this is not related to whether or not the car will last to 200k if regularly maintained. BMWs and most good quality new cars will go to 200k with good maintenance.

The various organizations that measure quality all use different standards. Some measure how many defects in the first year, from a lightbulb going out to a transmission replacement. Others only measure major problems. Lexus is very high but BMW is far from the bottom of the list.

How did an M5 become $60,000 more than a $50k GS430? Having driven my friends new M5 I can say that it is easily worth the $72.5k plus luxury tax he paid for it.

y2kgs

First, No one here would say that BMW are in the bottom of any list. As for organizations and how
They measure the various cars. I’m not even going to go there sense it makes no difference. But we are talking about the over all picture here in terms of reliability and performance. I’ve had many friends that had Bimmers and will always get another again but they did agree that Bimmers or not that reliable.
As for the price, what are you talking about. I could call a BMW dealer and ask for a price on a loaded
M5 and I’ll get a quote for at least 90K. Call and look around before you post any info. Why don’t you
Call some dealers now and get some quotes today. Any dealer would be lucky to have a M5 at their
Dealer cause they are hard to come by. Plus, all dealers will get one at most and would need to order more
If needed. Right.
Don’t really matter but you never answered any questions that I written down. Read my post again cause you didn’t read it word for word.

GS4Will

Back in the college days(the 80s), a friend of mine's m3 was everyones' envy and jealousy. both boys and girls wanted to get a ride in his red m3. in all honesty, i would like to have an M, or an AMG sometimes before i turn 40. but between now and then, if lexus/trd has something better to offer, especially at a lower price, i still like to be on the first name basis with lexus technicians, not because i have to, but i want to.

to me view of mount. FUJI will always look better than the Black Forest. i like to see something clear(regular maintenance), not elements of unknown(repair bill).

thousands of bmw and benz owners, including myself switched teams(to lex). why? because we have to. being treated like royalties with both the products and its people is too difficult to give up. i have lost count on hunderds of friends and families who became so "addicted" on such treatment, there is no going back. i guess you can call this a good form of "addiction".

car reviewers do not have to live with car everyday for 3-5 years. for us average joes, that is another story.

to this day, i will always remember the time when my 735i's coolant leaked all over the street and school kids were looking at the smoke coming out of my hood with astonishment. i like attention as much as the next guy, but that was way too much. the car only had 40k miles.

-one a test drive with one of my ex-girl, she adores the new3-convert, rattling noises were everywhere.
-was testing the water on 540i, the sales man told me if i want discount, go to lexus. well, i did.
-if i want the M5s, forlk $15-20k over sticker.

hey, i was just asking.

one 1980 honda accord and two lexus, combining 350,000 miles, like the energizer bunny, they kept going and going. i did not know what tune-ups were when i bought the used accord. the car lasted 150,000 miles with only oil and air filter change. now that kind of addiction is cheap.

if the Mcars are the last resource in combating the "addiction to perfection", bavarians, IMHO, need to be worry the next "Something Wicked this way comes".