Bob04

I'm not having a hard time realizing that. I just don't see how people claim "you'd never have to think about refueling a vehicle again". Seems to me, you have to think out it every time you get in and out of your car, unless it is self plugging and unplugging. Often, I'm carrying multiple items, which is annoying enough without having to worrying about plugging in and unplugging. And we have more vehicles than garage space, and my vehicle is almost always one of the vehicles left outside, since I prefer the other vehicles to be inside. So, unless I change what I'm willing to leave outside or am willing to play musical cars, charging at home isn't going to be so convenient either.

It's also not unusual for us to decide in a whim that we want to drive somewhere several hours away and back. I don't even have to think about range or charging stations. That is easily taken care of in a stop that we likely would make anyway for a restroom break. And sure, there are restrooms and restaurants around charging stations, but I don't want charging stations to dictate my route and schedule.

Gas is just too convenient for me. And whether people want to admit it or not, there is time associated with charging, even at home. Same case for range and route. Whether people want to admit it or not, on longer trips, your time and route will almost certainly be impacted. An EV just doesn't fit our lifestyle, especially since I don't go into the office even half as much as I did before. I'm sure they work fine for others, but it's not for me until recharging locations and times are comparable to refilling a ICE auto with gasoline.

SW17LS

That number is WAY less than 80%.

Sorry, I see zero argument that plugging your already parked vehicle in to the charging station right next to it in the garage is a hassle. The chargers are long, if your vehicle is outside you just pull the charger out to it. I see EVs charging in driveways in front of garages all the time. If you have stuff to carry, plug the car in before you get that stuff out of your car.

The bottom line is, you don't want an EV car for various reasons, but don't pretend that the process of having one is so "arduous".

Thats not something most people do, and you said yourself you have more cars than you do garage space. Most people who have EVs (not all) also have an ICE car. For instance if I went on a trip, I would just drive the Pacifica or whatever family vehicle we had at the time and leave my EV for my wife. Not ideal, but not the end of the world.

Gas is pretty convenient, but having your car fill up while its parked in your garage or driveway at night and having 350 miles of range available every morning is pretty convenient too. If I looked at my daily life, I would never need to recharge outside my garage unless I was on a trip. The "time associated with charging" is when the vehicle is parked and I'm asleep.

Its actually the anti-EV crowd that doesnt want to admit that in reality, they would likely work for them too. Like I said before, you are looking at EVs through the lens of a gas car "I need to recharge it out in the world like I refill my gas car" and thats just not true. You would rarely ever have to do that. And remember, a Tesla charges to 80% in about 15 minutes. So, not that long a time.

If you don't want an EV, just say that. Don't try and pretend they are this huge hassle because they aren't. If they were, people who go EV would come back to ICE and for some reason that very rarely happens.

Bob04

I don't have to pretend anything, and you don't know what I want. If I hated them and just didn't want one, I'd just say that and tell people that are bothered by that for some reason to just deal with it. I get to decide what is "arduous" (your word, not mine) for me, You decide what is "arduous" for you. And my outside parking is far away from my garage completely on the others side of my house at a separate entrance. Maybe there is a cord that long to reach that far, but I'm not dealing with that.

But you DO literally think about refueling every time you get in and out of your car. I remember when it suddenly became a pain to put a key in your car to unlock it every time you got in it. Along comes remote locks, and now they are in just about every car. And then, people didn't want to push a button anymore, so just touching the door handle with your key fob in your pocket unlocked it. And then people just wanted their cars to unlock as they walked up and lock again as they walk away.

Its completely reasonable for someone to be annoyed with plugging and unplugging a car every time they get in and out.

So, fuel requirement decide what you will drive in different situations. Fine if that works for you, but it doesn't for me. So, do you own an EV?

But there is a cumulative time associated with plugging and unplugging. I'd rather just get it over all at once can be done with it for a while. Fine if that works for you, but it would be annoying for me. It annoys me that you have to plug and unplug the toaster every time you want to use it. I called BS on that until my wife actually showed it to me in the users manual.

First, I'm not "anti-EV". It just doesn't work for me. And the charging requirements may be fine for you, but they aren't for me. And since you aren't me and don't live me life, you aren't really qualified to argue otherwise. And even if the 80% in 15 minutes were true, which it isn't in almost all cases, that still is only good if you can easily access that charger and don't have to drive miles out of the way to get to it and it isn't already being used. I can find a gas station just about anywhere and completely refuel in a few minutes and be done.

Like I said, I would just say that. I don't have to pretend for you or anybody else. I've been pretty clear on here for many years about how I feel about just about everything. I would love to have a MS or MS Plaid for a fun car, but I can't justify it. And I'd much rather have a C8 anyway if I'm going to take the heat from my wife for adding a sixth car to our household.

I mean, the last thing I need as a non-EV owning, overly pampered S Class driver being judgy about my acceptance of EVs and telling me what I should and should not consider annoying or inconvenient. lol

EZZ

Just as a note...most people don't think about charging every time you get in the car. You have about 250 miles of range so you only need to plug in at night...like your phone. Takes about 10 seconds if your car is in the garage so refueling is far more convenient with the right layout. Sounds like its a pain in your case so current EVs may not be right for you. Eventually, you'll get closer to the current gas paradigm of going to a station and fueling up in 5-10 min with solid state and other technologies being worked on. Regional differences also matter in that you can't go to a place without a charging station in metro California but its way ahead of the infrastructure here vs. other regions...but it does completely eliminate range anxiety owning an EV here.

I frankly tell people that an EV isn't worth owning now if they don't have a place to charge at home reliably and conveniently. Things will probably change in 5-10 years but I also don't want to mislead people to get an EV and they find it a much less convenient experience and get turned off by all EVs. I think the US will be one of the last countries to move away from gas simply due to the cost of gas and the slow rollout of infrastructure in the US. So plenty of time to rev those engines

SW17LS

You just don’t want an EV Bob, own that and stop trying to justify that. Plugging in the car in the garage is a non issue, just like plugging in your phone. Getting gas is a pain, especially in the winter. Saying plugging your own car in at night in your garage vs spending 10 minutes a week out in the elements pumping gas is a hardship is just ridiculous.

I don’t own an EV now but that’s not because of the EV tech, there just aren’t any EVs I want yet. I am ready to get one now if the product is right.

Can’t plug the car in at night and I’m the pampered one. Right lol

Bob04

If don't have any problem "owning" anything and don't need to justify anything to you or anybody. If I just hated EVs, I would just say so and wouldn't care what you or anybody else thought. But that isn't the case. And I've said as much here before.

Gas if more convenient for me and my lifestyle. Period. You don't get a say in that because you don't live my life. If an EV works for you, I'm happy for that. You were stressing over your tires or something when you first got your S Class. Something many other people would consider completely trivial and likely never even notice. But I'm not going to say that is "ridiculous", because different people care about different things. What is important to you might not be important to me, and vice versa.

When EVs give me the same or hopefully better experience than an ICE car, I'll be all in. Until then, I'll drive what is convenient for me. I'm sorry that bothers you so much for some strange reason.

SW17LS

But you are in fact trying to justify it is my point. You just don't want one, period. You don't have to try and say that plugging it in to your garage is a hardship, etc etc. Its not a hardship, you just don't want to do it. Nothing wrong with that.

AMIRZA786

Your absolutely right. You don't have to justify anything, you don't have to justify that gas is more convenient, etc etc. Then why are you writing long paragraphs, using a lot of energy arguing this point? I could power my house for a month on the energy it took for you to put these thoughts together and write them out. As I see it, EV'S don't work for you, pretty simple, I can't argue with that, and probably most people won't. Arguments that taking 2 minutes to plug your car in every night is less convenient than going to a gas station falls by the wayside. Just say it, EV's don't work for me, today. Maybe in the future. Not today. 99 percent of people will say, okay and move on

Bob04

I don't have to justify it, but I do, because I can, for me. Because the plugging and unplugging would annoy me. You don't get to tell me what annoys me and what doesn't, just like I didn't try to tell you that you shouldn't have been annoyed by your tires.

And like I said, that isn't the only reason. I don't want to plan my routes and stops around charging stations and slow recharging. I know several people that own EVs, and they admit for longer trips, it's not as convenient as gas. Pretty much a no-brainer.

On top of that, I don't particularly care for how they drive either. I could probably get used to it, but the braking feel with you let off the "gas" pedal is annoying. I much prefer the coasting feel of ICE autos. Love the performance and the tech, but that regenerative braking feel isn't something I care for.

I think I even said here not long ago that my next car would probably either be a C8 or an EV, and that the income limits of EV tax credits may push me one way or the other. But that's the type of car it would be for me. A weekend toy, not serious transportation that I could convert to completely. That the reason most people still have an ICE auto along with their EV. It's a compromise car for now. It will get better over time, and I've gladly jump in when it does.

AMIRZA786

FYI.... you can turn off regen braking so the car coasts almost like a regular ice. Your knowledge and experience with EV'S is showing...

SW17LS

Plus another multi paragraph post of unnecessary justifying.

Bob04

No, it doesn't "fall by the wayside" for me. I'd rather deal with something once every 10 days for 5-7 minutes than deal with something every day for 10 days for 2 minutes. You may feel differently. Again, just like SW, you are trying to tell me what annoys me and what I prefer is wrong based on what you feel is right for you. And neither you or SW get to tell me how I would prefer to handle refueling. You can decide that for yourself, but not for me. Maybe you don't care about planning longer trips around charging stations and the delays associated with them. Good for you. Absolutely does not work for me.

And I have said it. Multiple times. It doesn't work for me today fo the reasons I listed. It will one day, and may even be better for me. But there was an accusation that "i just don't want one" and the suggestion that I'm just an EV hater that just won't admit it works for me. That's a lie. I don't "hate" EVs. And they don't work for me. For me.

Bob04

I know that, but you lose range, which partly defeats the purpose. And the ranges are already overly optimistic.

AMIRZA786

I never said you hate EV'S. You yourself made it clear you don't want one, so I'm not really sure why anyone would need to accuse you

SW17LS

There’s nothing wrong with something not working for you. Just don’t argue that it’s a limitation or drawback of a certain thing in general.

There is no hardship involved in plugging your car in when it’s parked at night if you have it parked somewhere that you can do that. YOU have an aversion to doing that, but that doesn’t mean it’s a drawback of the technology in general.

I don’t like hybrids because I don’t like the way the transition feels, and I don’t live CVTs, but clearly a hybrid would work for me, I just don’t prefer it. An EV would work for you, you just don’t prefer it.

As for picking on me about replacing my tires, you returned an entire car for an older outdated model because you couldn’t stand some light barely audible ticking. So let’s not throw stones lol.