Porsche vs Tesla? Tesla Model S 'Plaid' prototype lap Laguna Seca
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,460
Likes: 232
From: CA
Originally Posted by ChronoR
Yup, the reason Tesla gets more range is because they're more efficient. Only Hyundai's Ioniq is more efficient that the RWD Model 3 for instance.
Jalopnik has a strange hate for Tesla and like to spin things but there's a hard number that tells you how efficient a BEV is (like MPG) and that's Wh/Mile. EPA does testing for this and lists it so it's pretty much something you can't get around. That's why the Jalopnik article never mentions it because it completely blows a hole in their theory.
Jalopnik has a strange hate for Tesla and like to spin things but there's a hard number that tells you how efficient a BEV is (like MPG) and that's Wh/Mile. EPA does testing for this and lists it so it's pretty much something you can't get around. That's why the Jalopnik article never mentions it because it completely blows a hole in their theory.
but the difference in the comparison with apple is if i were a tesla owner and pulled up to a super charge station to find it full with audis, mercedes, hyundais, etc., i'd be pi$$ed.
let's not go there... AGAIN. the non-tesla models are absolutely produced with debt, it's just absorbed/offset by the huge revenue/profit from fossil fuel vehicles.
Lead Lap
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 4,709
Likes: 549
From: Ca
It is not easy for Tesla to increase the price of their vehicles to break even, because if prices increased, then sales volume would also fall - leading to overall loss in revenue - resulting in a position that is even worse than the overall revenue that they are collecting now.
Only time will tell whether their business model pulls off.
Stage 1: Tesla pioneers modern day EV's.
Stage 2: [Now]. Tit for tat as Taycan out does Model S, only for non-production plaid to outdo Taycan, then comes non-production Taycan special to outdo non-production plaid etc.
Stage 3: Either Tesla remains at the top, or we see a new leader?
And their-in lies the advantage to that particular type of business model; at least overall they are in the black.
It is not easy for Tesla to increase the price of their vehicles to break even, because if prices increased, then sales volume would also fall - leading to overall loss in revenue - resulting in a position that is even worse than the overall revenue that they are collecting now.
Only time will tell whether their business model pulls off.
Stage 1: Tesla pioneers modern day EV's.
Stage 2: [Now]. Tit for tat as Taycan out does Model S, only for non-production plaid to outdo Taycan, then comes non-production Taycan special to outdo non-production plaid etc.
Stage 3: Either Tesla remains at the top, or we see a new leader?
It is not easy for Tesla to increase the price of their vehicles to break even, because if prices increased, then sales volume would also fall - leading to overall loss in revenue - resulting in a position that is even worse than the overall revenue that they are collecting now.
Only time will tell whether their business model pulls off.
Stage 1: Tesla pioneers modern day EV's.
Stage 2: [Now]. Tit for tat as Taycan out does Model S, only for non-production plaid to outdo Taycan, then comes non-production Taycan special to outdo non-production plaid etc.
Stage 3: Either Tesla remains at the top, or we see a new leader?
model s vs taycan is just PR silliness. that an 'old' 5/7 seat EV sedan can even compete with a brand new PORSCHE EV sedan is breathtaking.
your arguments are generally straight line projections, that tesla's spending will always be the same... well at some point they will finish their chinese factory and other expenses will come down. their products are not really directly comparable with others, so they have a unique situation right now, that may continue even as other brands bring out EVs. kona, ioniq certainly don't hurt 3. i don't think taycan's going to impact model s sales, which are pretty small anyway. and eqc/e-tron are NOTHING like a model x.
no one has all the answers... or knows where this is all going. on that we agree.
Lead Lap
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 4,709
Likes: 549
From: Ca
Stage 1:
Tesla is the pioneer.
Stage 2:
Tesla is the present.
Competitors like Taycan and non-production plaid are emerging in a tit for tat battle.
Stage 3:
However, who knows where the future will lie?
S Class, 7 Series & Jaguar XJ dominated in the 1980's, but LS400 dominated from 90's till ~2010.
All auto manufacturers must invest in R&D.
All auto manufacturers must invest in plant & machinery.
At the end of the day, the balance sheet must balance.
They can have losses here and there, but long term profits must still be achieved.
Presently, we can NOT underwrite NOR overwrite Tesla.
Only time will tell.
It will be most interesting to see how it all plays out over the next 5 to 10 years....
.
Last edited by peteharvey; Sep 19, 2019 at 02:40 PM.
And that is my point all along.
Stage 1:
Tesla is the pioneer.
Stage 2:
Tesla is the present.
Competitors like Taycan and non-production plaid are emerging in a tit for tat battle.
Stage 3:
However, who knows where the future will lie?
S Class, 7 Series & Jaguar XJ dominated in the 1980's, but LS400 dominated from 90's till ~2010.
All auto manufacturers must invest in R&D.
All auto manufacturers must invest in plant & machinery.
At the end of the day, the balance sheet must balance.
They can have losses here and there, but long term profits must still be achieved.
Presently, we can NOT underwrite NOR overwrite Tesla.
Only time will tell.
It will be most interesting to see how it all plays out over the next 5 to 10 years....
.
Stage 1:
Tesla is the pioneer.
Stage 2:
Tesla is the present.
Competitors like Taycan and non-production plaid are emerging in a tit for tat battle.
Stage 3:
However, who knows where the future will lie?
S Class, 7 Series & Jaguar XJ dominated in the 1980's, but LS400 dominated from 90's till ~2010.
All auto manufacturers must invest in R&D.
All auto manufacturers must invest in plant & machinery.
At the end of the day, the balance sheet must balance.
They can have losses here and there, but long term profits must still be achieved.
Presently, we can NOT underwrite NOR overwrite Tesla.
Only time will tell.
It will be most interesting to see how it all plays out over the next 5 to 10 years....
.
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Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 94,328
Likes: 236
From: Virginia/D.C. suburbs
Fine, but they will have to sell the vehicles from that plant in the Chinese market....or outside of North America. The tariffs (as they should) will make them too expensive to import here.
Lead Lap
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 4,709
Likes: 549
From: Ca
Debts are never encouraged.
Any intelligent person would realize that prolonged debt raises at least an eyebrow.
We can't just turn a blind eye to debt and sweep it under the carpet.
We must be patient, and wait and see how it all pans out.
Only time will tell what will happen long term....
Lead Lap
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 4,709
Likes: 549
From: Ca
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,460
Likes: 232
From: CA
They've built enough capacity to fulfill the Chinese and European markets in that factory. The US factory is big enough to fulfill North America so Tesla won't be subject to any tariffs.
Lead Lap
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 4,709
Likes: 549
From: Ca
Taycan passing a broken down 'Plaid' Tesla twice. Social media will have fun with this one for awhile
Source
Source
That's what I like in a person.
They see both sides of the story.