asj2024

Toyota NA released sales figures for the quarter, and from scrutinizing the figures, it looks like Prius Primes (PHEV) made up around 30% of all Prius.

This is interesting because it is higher than I thought, and seems to indicate a general trend.

Percent PHEV out of total hybrids and base MSRP

Prius Prime 30% - $33k base
NX450h+ 16% - $62k base
RX450h+ 13% - $71k base

So as the base price increases, PHEV acceptance decreases. In the case of the Prime and NX, it seems to be a linear relationship. Double the cost, and the PHEV component drops by half in comparison. This might also be because of the price differential that Toyota applies between PHEV vs HEV, where higher cost lines have larger differentials.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

i don't think it's price related as much as buyer profile/interests.
i expect most nx/rx buyers get hev/phev to save on gas. i expect most prius buyers get hev/phev to save the planet.

asj2024

I definitely did not get the RX to save on gas, considering that you don't get a return on investment until many many years into the future (if at all), given the difference in price point.

And if you look at the buyers of 5th gen Prius right now, it may be that a sizeable chunk are new buyers who have never considered a Prius before, and are more attracted to the looks. The 220 hp of the Prime probably is something that they look at, as is the gas savings at the same time. The price differential between PHEV and HEV in Prius is less, so you do get a better return faster.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

so you got it to save the planet? i'll remember that as i watch giant diesel pickups belching black smoke as i drive to work in all electric silence (with climate control on recirc so as not to breathe that crap).

asj2024

1. Because a PHEV pairs best with the usage that I do. Lots of short trips on EV (with a range of around 40 miles I can wander quite far on EV alone), plus longer range trips on EV/HV, including continental drives and trips to parks and other natural settings.

2. Yes, to at least be better for the planet than an ICE car. I've been driving a hybrid for almost 15 years now, so not only saved gas, but perhaps put in my share of helping the environment.

3. You keep forgetting that huge *** battery BEVs lug along was made using a very polluting process, not to mention the heavier average weight per model line creates tires that spew more pollutants into the air.

4. Because zombies and grid meltdown.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

re: weight - i think you have an rx450h+? that's HEAVIER than my ioniq 5.
re: zombies and meltdown, if desperate i could recharge my car using my 10kw propane generator (i have in ground tank).

glad you like your hev/phev.

asj2024

Notice I said same model line. The RX450h+ is heavier than just the plain gas RX (by 500 lbs)

I also value my comfort and wants (luxurious interior/exterior and reliable large enough car), not just saving the planet.

As in everything in life, you weight things when you make decisions.

That's nice. Hope you have fun looking around for generators as you travel along and have to replenish your rapidly discharging battery on a lower range vehicle

AMIRZA786

If you bought me a brand new Toyota PHEV (because you are just that type of guy), I would thank you with all my heart, and immediately sell it, and buy a Tesla, probably the new 2024 Model 3 LR

No offence to PHEV's, thanks but no thanks

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

you're all over the map. criticizimg ev's because they're heavy and supposedly bad for the environment yet you drive a very heavy vehicle.

true and your endless ev bashing here has become very tiresome. maybe you should request a separate phev sub-forum.

was that really necessary? as you said, we all make choices with inevitable trade-offs. i have some friends who are serious doomsday preppers. pushing hard on any aspects of their 'plans' shows how ridiculous they are. i don't expect to be looking around for generators while traveling along.

asj2024

They are heavy compared to their non-BEV version. That's not even something to be debated. The huge battery is the difference.

The BEV version of the RX would be significantly heavier than the PHEV version.

Stating facts about BEVs is not bashing it. It's stating facts about it. BEVs have many positives, including strong acceleration when needed and less pollutants from non-tire sources when in use. They also have many negatives to them, and pointing the negatives out is not "bashing". It's pointing it out and weighing it to get an overall accurate picture.

I already mentioned from the beginning that we are moving towards full electric (or at least non fossil fuel). The question is how long will that take. Imo, it will take much longer than people think.

Notice the emoji. It was a joke.

LeX2K

RAV4 Prime and Model Y long range have almost exactly the same curb weight.

AMIRZA786

Let me address you point by point from your previous post:

"They are heavy compared to their non-BEV version. That's not even something to be debated. The huge battery is the difference"

Every last one of us on this forum who owns a BEV or multiple BEV's knows this. It's not something we even debate about. We know BEV's weigh more, that's not news to us

"The BEV version of the RX would be significantly heavier than the PHEV version"

Again, this doesn't hold any significance to any of us BEV owners. We would probably buy the heavier RX BEV if it met our criteria...decent range, good charging curve, and acceptable performance and good pricing

"Stating facts about BEVs is not bashing it. It's stating facts about it"

The problem is, you keep stating these "facts" over and over again. As BEV owners, we didn't make our purchases blindly, we knew exactly what we were buying and have concluded that the "weaknesses" are acceptable as their strengths outweigh them. But you don't seem satisfied with that answer for some reason

"I already mentioned from the beginning that we are moving towards full electric (or at least non fossil fuel). The question is how long will that take. Imo, it will take much longer than people think"

It doesn't matter how long it takes for the general public to accept BEV's, we already have, which is why we purchased (or leased) our current vehicles. If BEV adoption takes 20 years, OK, so what? How does that affect me? I can really care less if EV adoption is slowing down. That's actually a benefit to me because the net effect is price cuts, so my next purchase will be cheaper.

You seem very determined to get us into a Hybrid or PHEV. I've driven several, including a Prius, two RAV4 hybrid rentals, and a RAV4 Prime. Without getting into any details, I can confidently say that I prefer my BEV's

asj2024

Well, for one thing...as a Tesla investor, I assume you'll benefit from a fast rollout

As to trying to convince anyone of anything. Why would I care what you drive? Did I ever say anywhere..."hey, you really should be driving car x"?

This is a forum, where we discuss topics. My discussing the benefits and negatives of a type of vehicle does not mean I care whether or not you buy or do not buy that vehicle. I'm discussing it for the sake of exchanging ideas (or in some cases, because I'm in between working or whatever. and need some entertainment).

AMIRZA786

I'm long term, I've already made my money on my TSLA holdings, most of what I have in my portfolio was purchased in 2020 when it was below $100 (and pre-split). I've seen it tank multiple times, including when it dropped all the way to $113 in Jan 2023. I'm not too worried about it, I'll probably sell some of it when it goes back above $300. As a consumer, I want prices down, I have two leases that will be up next year, and I would rather prices be down, not up.

Fair enough. It's just I think you made your points, but if you want to keep making them, I'm not standing in your way

Allen K

iTrader: (4)

As a reminder the ignore function is available for everyone to use