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This is loser thinking (not you, assuming Rivian thinks this way). Think about it, if Rivian is trying to conquest mainly Tesla buyers that means they are largely depended on Tesla growing the market and by extension growing Rivian sales.
Tesla grew by approaching their cars as being 100% viable replacements for gas cars. The cars themselves and the charging network.
Ryan Shaw (youtuber) sold his Rivian in large part for this very reason.
Don't get me wrong, they need to target ICE owners as well, but they are still a relatively new brand that most people outside of the western states don't know much about. Tesla's didn't start becoming mainstream until the Model 3, maybe the R2 and R3 at their price points will help them break out.
BTW I hope they fixed their seats. The R1T I drove had pretty uncomfortable seats. Not ideal for long trips
This isn't true, Toyota is Tesla's #1 conquest sale. If you think Rivian must mainly target Tesla buyers that is admitting Rivian does not have full market appeal.
Much easier way to go bankrupt, have to address the entire market not a small slice of it.
I Understand your point of view, but I feel like most Toyota owners who would switch to a Tesla have already done so. Not saying there isn't more but I think the opportunity for Rivian to take from Tesla vs Toyota is easier. They should certainly target both and I think this R2 is very competitive for the 4runner crowd which Tesla hasn't been able to touch.
I Understand your point of view, but I feel like most Toyota owners who would switch to a Tesla have already done so.
That means Tesla sales are going to drop meaning Rivian is targeting a shrinking pie.
Not saying there isn't more but I think the opportunity for Rivian to take from Tesla vs Toyota is easier.
Tesla has much higher brand loyalty than Toyota.
They should certainly target both and I think this R2 is very competitive for the 4runner crowd which Tesla hasn't been able to touch.
4Runner sells 120,000/year in the U.S. so not a huge market. R2 needs to be a RAV4 alternative not 4Runner or some other relatively niche vehicle I stand by that.
That means Tesla sales are going to drop meaning Rivian is targeting a shrinking pie.
Tesla has much higher brand loyalty than Toyota.
4Runner sells 120,000/year in the U.S. so not a huge market. R2 needs to be a RAV4 alternative not 4Runner or some other relatively niche vehicle I stand by that.
Disagree. Tesla isn't only acquiring new customers from Toyota.
I just mentioned the 4runner but imo the r2 will have a wide appeal. It's styling is currently what's trendy. We will have to see how long that lasts.
I provided hard numbers. There are several people here that are Rivian investors and likely potential investors. Can get offended, or use them as important context. Much better than buying stock and hoping for the best that's an emotional way to invest that usually does not end well. I don't care much what R.J. says I need to see action. Rivian HAS to find efficiency and do it yesterday. If I was an investor I would want to see extreme urgency
4Q22 loss per vehicle was $124,162. 4Q23 was $43,372. Not urgent enough for you?
YoY Q3s were $140k->$30k
In the early years of the 3, it was the regulatory credits that were fueling a significant portion of Tesla's revenues.
Why would an automaker buy a fraction of the required ZEV credits from Rivian when they can do a bulk buy of all their needs from Tesla?
I don't follow Rivian's financials that closely since I'm not invested. Do they sell regulatory credits or not?
K I looked it up was easy to find. In 2023 Rivian sold regulatory credits amounting to $780 per vehicle Tesla was around $840 per unit sold. In theory the numbers should be the same and probably are I did round out figures to make calculations easier.
I Understand your point of view, but I feel like most Toyota owners who would switch to a Tesla have already done so..
I read an article from December 2022 that mentioned this might be because Toyota and Honda were dragging their feet on BEV, so you have a point I think. The slowing rate of BEV growth might mean the initial population of people who are really into that (or just trying it or trying to get the rebate) is starting to dry up as more potential customers come from mainstream buyers.
As to Rivian, I like the company and the CEO, and I like the quirky look of the vehicles.
They need to get service centers up and start delivering to more states. Lot of early reservation holders still waiting because they aren't in a servicable region
03-08-24, 12:14 PM
