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I agree with the general premise of this thread. I find the 4 bangers unsophisticated and lacking luxury refinement. The EV would have solved that problem but no one wants them. I recently drove a loaded RX and found it to be very very good. It was a non hybrid FWD and just seemed smoother than RX loaners I had driven in the past. It really left me impressed. I am not a mid-size SUV customer and drive LX's and LS's. The new LX is better in everyway except that noisey V6TT. I hope it holds up for us as we keep them several years before trading.
My LC is amazing and I bought it because I knew it was the end of this era for Lexus. I think adding sub brands to the US Toyota/Lexus world is a risky thing. Consumer attention spans are short and general non-enthusiast buyers just don't understand the family relationship of all those brands. Frankly, I think Aikio Toyoda made a mistake with his focus on "fun" "exciting" sporty" cars. Rich folks can buy a sporty car and leave it in the garage for the weekends. Most of these folks appreciate rock solid, smooth luxury cars that Lexus was built on. They got away from that in the LS and focused too much on pleasing the Automotive Press who are usually clueless, live in an echo chamber an mostly pretend they are NOT speaking to 13 year olds in their bedrooms. This is all evidenced by their recent obsession with all things electric. WRONG! Mature people who can actually buy cars need them to be comfortable, stylish, and reliable. I am not saying bring back the LS400 but my ES350 loaner last month was a really cheap, rough riding, overpriced car. Left me convinced I would rather buy a new Camry. I ended up with a beautiful LS500 (NON F sport) It is a wonderful machine but I can't imagine older drivers enjoying it over a 10 year old LS if given a true comparison.
The 2.5 inline 4 will be very CO2 efficient because nobody wants them, so there will not be any CO2 to worry about. I am quite happy with my 2025 ES350 UL with a nice quiet V6 engine. Could care less about CO2.
In my opinion, I thought Lexus was gonna use the Toyota Crown's(S235) drive train since it's on the GA-K platform and use the A25A-FXS and T24A-FTS powertrains, however, the 8ES 350h will use the A25A-FXS powertrain for the hybrid variant but 2 EV (ES 300e/500e) variants the Americans don't want. That's gonna be a hard sell. The 8ES sales numbers will definitely plummet compared to the past generations ES. Don't get me started on the looks of the 8ES, it's a horrendous big failure...
The development of the 8ES started when the EV thing was big in USA. Once they said that the target is EV80%/HEV20%. Now the situation is completely different so the target will be changed to 20/80.
The ruined the ES and it's success by:
Focusing on EV
Degrading the HEV
Making it ugly
For the launch of the brand in the 1990 model year, Lexus offered two primary luxury sedans: the flagship LS 400 (a V8-powered luxury sedan) and the smaller ES 250 (a V6-powered luxury sedan). These models were designed to establish Toyota's luxury division, focusing on high-quality build, comfort, and performance.
Now, 36 years later, we get at least 12 different models, many of which are available as Toyotas, also hybrid versions and EV versions. All of this is mind-boggling for an aging, traditional Lexus buyer.
Not sure who Lexus is trying to appeal to. It’s a confusing mess for a typical Lexus buyer.
I see a big brand identity problem and time to shop elsewhere.
For the launch of the brand in the 1990 model year, Lexus offered two primary luxury sedans: the flagship LS 400 (a V8-powered luxury sedan) and the smaller ES 250 (a V6-powered luxury sedan). These models were designed to establish Toyota's luxury division, focusing on high-quality build, comfort, and performance.
Now, 36 years later, we get at least 12 different models, many of which are available as Toyotas, also hybrid versions and EV versions. All of this is mind-boggling for an aging, traditional Lexus buyer.
Not sure who Lexus is trying to appeal to. It’s a confusing mess for a typical Lexus buyer.
I see a big brand identity problem and time to shop elsewhere.
The 1990 Lexus ES250 2.5 V6 was only a Camry 2.5 V6.
1992 Camry and ES300 3.0 V6's.
Last edited by peteharvey; Apr 21, 2026 at 01:24 PM.
The ES line has come a long way since 1990 and now Lexus is committing suicide with the 8ES, maybe by design/on purpose so they can focus on CUV's/SUV's? Also, Toyota is focusing on GR Sub brand and about to launch an ultra-luxury division with Century. Time will tell what will happen to our beloved Lexus. I personally wish that Lexus would have kept the GS, SC, LS, IS and expand Lexus even further...
The ES line has been successful in the luxury sedan industry, and the 8th generation is about to arrive as an EV and hybrid version. The V6 engine has gone away sadly however we get a few hybrid versions (ES 300h/350h).
The ES line has been successful in the luxury sedan industry, and the 8th generation is about to arrive as an EV and hybrid version. The V6 engine has gone away sadly however we get a few hybrid versions (ES 300h/350h).
Is the 8th gen already on sale anywhere? Has anyone had the chance to drive one yet?
I can't find any YT video of it actually being driven; almost all of them are just showroom or seating demos.
I get the sales numbers from the Toyota/Lexus pressroom. For the 1ES, 2ES and 3ES sales numbers I got from wikipedia.
I posted in another thread about the ES that in the last 20 years the ES sales were down over 40%. Your figures show from a high 19 years ago to last year sales were down -47%. Lexus will not keep an assembly line open for a model that has lost almost 50% of sales units. Look at the GS, LS, RC and LC sedans that did not sell that are history. Lexus knowing the sedan is a dying breed wanted to shake up the model with electric and hybrid only and a quite a different style. Members have posted in other threads and true that this is made for the China market and will not come close to old ES US sales units. This has more to do with the sedan world then the ES. If I had to buy a sedan it would be a ESh. Great looks, quiet and a crazy 44 mpg.
Over 80% of Lexus sales in the US are SUVS.
Last edited by Freds430; Apr 24, 2026 at 04:52 AM.
IMO, the front quarter view and the rear quarter view looks nice enough.
Had the LS500 front quarter looked like this, the LS500 would have sold much better IMO.
However, the side view with the pronounced "fastback" rear was perhaps a bit too soon and too wild for US market; a more notched appearance would have been better.
The interior looks simple and clean enough IMO, without being a Tesla.
PS
Notice how the photographers took the rear quarter photos from a higher position to hide the fastback?
However, the stylists may have wanted a more notchback appearance too, and perhaps it was the aerodynamicict who enforced the fastback for a lower CoD for longer range on the EPA tests???
Last edited by peteharvey; Apr 24, 2026 at 04:49 PM.
What’s the purpose of the superfluous fake air vent looking thingy on the side?
Why did they have to paint it black? Seems like something Hyundai or KIA would do.
