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I forgot about a very obvious cause of drag which is tires. The 17" model w/ spoiler (ES hybrid base) is the one I think Lexus quotes for their spec sheet to look as best as possible.
Couldn't find anything but I suspect ES w/ 19" (F Sport) could be 0.30. (more tire that has to cut through the air)
My ES300h with 17" tires certainly got better fuel economy. Weight and rolling resistance helps too.
Nah. What's really being missed here is that Lexus marketing department personnel are pretty lame propagandists. Data from [US] Lexus's own official web site does NOT support the claim that the standard equipped "Color-keyed rear spoiler" has any effect on the "Aerodynamic Drag Coefficient" specification.
1) Aerodynamic Drag Coefficient for model types standard equipped with Color-keyed rear spoiler:
0.26 - ES 300h, ES 300h LUXURY, ES 300h ULTRA LUXURY. and ES 300h F SPORT
0.29 - ES 250 F SPORT AWD and ES 350 F SPORT
2) Aerodynamic Drag Coefficient for model types with only optional Color-keyed rear spoiler:
0.29 - ES 250 AWD, ES 350, ES 250 LUXURY AWD, ES 350 LUXURY, ES 250 ULTRA LUXURY AWD, and ES 350 ULTRA LUXURY
If the rear spoiler has any significant effect on the Aerodynamic Drag Coefficient number for a model type you would NOT see the two model types with the 0.29 number under the 1) category.
Also, if the rear spoiler really has the claimed 0.03 difference in Aerodynamic Drag Coefficient you would see two numbers cited for the category 2) model types. One for with spoiler and one for without spoiler in a manner similar to "Headroom (Front/Rear)" specifications that cite different numbers for "with moonroof" and "with panorama glass roof".
Don’t F-Sports all come with a spoiler as well? Since F-Sport and regular ES 350s have the same drag coefficient, it would also seem to negate the argument that the spoiler has any impact. Very curious. I suppose every thing they change, even things like tires and wheels are going to have some minor impact on the drag so comparing any of the models isn’t as simple as we might think?
The rear spoiler helps maybe 10% of that 0,03 Cd.
The grill shutters, the underneath panels, the airflow over the engine on I-4 engines...that's what helps.
Despite this being an older thread, it's one of the discussions I found most interesting since I graduated to the 7th gen. Short and sweet conclusion of the video is that the spoiler increases coefficient of drag .02.
Despite this being an older thread, it's one of the discussions I found most interesting since I graduated to the 7th gen. Short and sweet conclusion of the video is that the spoiler increases coefficient of drag .02.
This makes intuitive sense. Lower drag is usually associated with fewer disturbances in the airstream around, over and under the car.
Spoilers, whether front lip or rear decklid, aren't meant to reduce drag and instead usually increase it. They're meant to keep the car down for greater cornering force upon the tires' contact patches. The front lip is to prevent air under the car from lifting it up, and the rear is to shove the back of the car down.
I ran our 2016 Z51 Corvette in The Texas Mile last October. After about a dozen runs, the car had topped out just over 166mph. I used cardboard & tape to "flatten" the rear spoiler, in an amateur attempt to reduce drag.
This makes intuitive sense. Lower drag is usually associated with fewer disturbances in the airstream around, over and under the car.
Spoilers, whether front lip or rear decklid, aren't meant to reduce drag and instead usually increase it. They're meant to keep the car down for greater cornering force upon the tires' contact patches. The front lip is to prevent air under the car from lifting it up, and the rear is to shove the back of the car down.
That would have been my guess too, but with all the interesting debate, I also wondered if there was something I was missing as far as the spoiler possibly smoothing airflow as it flowed past the tail. I'm still surprised that a lip spoiler on the 7th gen might knock the coefficient of drag .02 in the other direction, especially with the designers' decision to slap it on most of the hybrids I've seen.
For the record, one of the reasons I chose my 350 was that it was one of the few I could find in black or grey without the spoiler (thanks to this forum, I learned that removing it would be more trouble than it was worth). Just prefer the cleaner look, and seems cleaner aerodynamics too.
I appreciate the intelligent discussion and hope to see more like this 👍🏾
I ran our 2016 Z51 Corvette in The Texas Mile last October. After about a dozen runs, the car had topped out just over 166mph. I used cardboard & tape to "flatten" the rear spoiler, in an amateur attempt to reduce drag.
The next run was 167.4mph!
Some interesting handiwork you've done there, you've beat my record in my 2008 ES by a solid 27.4 mph 😂 Did you notice any change in handling?
Some interesting handiwork you've done there, you've beat my record in my 2008 ES by a solid 27.4 mph 😂 Did you notice any change in handling?
No, the car was extremely stable, both with the mods and without. Somewhat relatedly, the car has magnetic suspension with several settings. I had been running the "Track" setting, and noticed the ride was rather bumpy at the higher speeds. I had ran 165 in Track. For giggles, I made a pass in the "Touring" setting (softest option) - the car was smoother at the higher speeds, and it ran 166! The 167.4 was also in Touring. I suspect the smoother ride led to less turbulence.
I'm thinking of getting some Kydex sheets, and making something to replace the cardboard & tape :-)
That would have been my guess too, but with all the interesting debate, I also wondered if there was something I was missing as far as the spoiler possibly smoothing airflow as it flowed past the tail. I'm still surprised that a lip spoiler on the 7th gen might knock the coefficient of drag .02 in the other direction, especially with the designers' decision to slap it on most of the hybrids I've seen.
For the record, one of the reasons I chose my 350 was that it was one of the few I could find in black or grey without the spoiler (thanks to this forum, I learned that removing it would be more trouble than it was worth). Just prefer the cleaner look, and seems cleaner aerodynamics too.
I appreciate the intelligent discussion and hope to see more like this 👍🏾
Thanks for the kind words.
I don't want to suggest that I know more than I do about airflow. I suppose there could be a circumstance where a spoiler could reduce drag, say, a flare in front of something like a wheel or a mirror that would present even more resistance by making the air flow around a turbulent object. I was just talking about the basic intent of the usual big full-width spoiler.
As for me personally, the spoiler was one of the features I specifically tried not to get, en route to finding out that you couldn't custom-order a Lexus with only the stuff you wanted. I don't hate it and I readily got used to it, but I think the UL looks cleaner and more flowing without the tack-on.
I also do not like the spoiler. When searching for a replacement car I came to the ES 350 primarily because of the ICE V6, No turbos, No CVT, reliability. I had never owned a Lexus so was not aware of any of the features and issues. I would up with a 21 ES350 with 20K miles purchased in Aug 2024 with: Premium package with large screen and Nav, 18" tires, lots of other things still learning about that the 1st owner had installed, I am 2nd owner. Happy with out the UL and that Pano roof.
After reading this post I am ok the spoiler in not present, I prefer the sleeker look even if the Cd is less or maybe more per discussions here?
Aside comment - now owned for about 19months I would have preferred the 17" rims for a softer ride, the car came with Bridgestone EL 440 235/45 R18 and this site has stated how bad and I agree. There are others features not crazy about for another time,.
I also do not like the spoiler. When searching for a replacement car I came to the ES 350 primarily because of the ICE V6, No turbos, No CVT, reliability. I had never owned a Lexus so was not aware of any of the features and issues. I would up with a 21 ES350 with 20K miles purchased in Aug 2024 with: Premium package with large screen and Nav, 18" tires, lots of other things still learning about that the 1st owner had installed, I am 2nd owner. Happy with out the UL and that Pano roof.
After reading this post I am ok the spoiler in not present, I prefer the sleeker look even if the Cd is less or maybe more per discussions here?
Aside comment - now owned for about 19months I would have preferred the 17" rims for a softer ride, the car came with Bridgestone EL 440 235/45 R18 and this site has stated how bad and I agree. There are others features not crazy about for another time,.
I strongly suspect that for practical purposes, the effect of the spoiler is negligible in any direction. Your aesthetic dislike for it is more than enough reason to not want it.
You are not the only one to feel the way you do about the Bridgestone OEM tires on the ES.
I strongly suspect that for practical purposes, the effect of the spoiler is negligible in any direction. Your aesthetic dislike for it is more than enough reason to not want it.
You are not the only one to feel the way you do about the Bridgestone OEM tires on the ES.
Agree - practically the spoiler effect is negligible.
Bridgestone's - presently getting along with them and will replace soon, looking into what to get - reading tire comments on CL
