E46CT

The 2023 Highlander is dropping its 3.5L V6 for Toyota's new Turbo-4 2.5L. The Highlander, like the 7ES, came out in 2019. So it's possible the 2023 ES may also drop the V6 as well. Would you V6 guys welcome and thirst after the 2.5L Turbo? It would easily smoke the V6 and get better fuel economy too.

ESh

I don’t we would get that engine in the 7ES at all. And I don’t think they will change anything else on the 7ES for its remaining lifespan.

bc6152

My '06 Avalon, '13 ES, and 2019 ES all had/have the same engine, the venerable Toyota V6. This engine is bulletproof, smooth, quiet, with plenty of horses. Unlike a 4 banger.... I say keep the V6...

ATL350

I think the NA V6 is safe, but only for the life of the current model. Once the redesign occurs, I would be shocked if it still came with the NA V6, even as an option. Unfortunately the automotive world is enamored of turbo-4's. While they have hammered out a lot of the bugs in these things, and they can produce prodigious amounts of HP and torque, they still sound like vacuum cleaners (which is why a lot of cars use fake engine noise piped through the entertainment system - even the LS uses it to make the turbo-6 sound better), with areas that are still problematic, namely the turbo lag and the long term reliability, something that has always been a big selling point of Toyota, and especially Lexus. The world moves on regardless of what we think and prefer, however, so I think that change is inevitable, If you disagree, I would remind you the same "oh they wouldn't dare do that" thinking was alive and well before the Lexus V8 disappeared from the LS - and you see where we are at today.

BMGS

iTrader: (1)

I love my GS with the 4cyl turbo and it also helped that no one else did and I got it super cheap. With a few mods it's making a good amount more (50-60 ft. Lbs) of torque than the V6 version and even the GSF in some rpm ranges.

I doubt its faster overall but for someone who doesn't care about racing, it's a much better driving experience to have that plethora of low end torque on tap.

I definitely prefer the turbo engine after owning a V6 ES350.

Taharalove

Agreed. The V6's days are numbered unfortunately. It is far simpler (no turbo), and the refinement/NVH is unmatched when compared to other mass-produced engines of the same segment. It will certainly be missed by many, especially enthusiasts like us on here. It's had a great run though

Buttttt, I don't think your average consumer even knows how many cylinders are in their car. Journalists and marketing however have placed a lot of emphasis on the word "turbo" and maybe the word itself helps sell cars. A normal person would likely prefer a "turbo" car over non-turbo.

I feel cheated when manufacturers sell mid-size sedans/SUV's for $55K+ and give you a four-banger engine that goes along with it. But as we can see from market trends, people don't seem to mind, so clearly it's all me. To me at that point, you might as well get a hybrid.

E46CT

Possible but we don't know that for sure. Like I said the Highlander is also TNGA and came out in 2019 and for 2023 it gets a new engine. So why not for the 7ES? The schematics are already drawn up and wouldn't be that difficult to transfer over to what is pretty much the same car. In fact it might even cost Toyota more to not change the powertrain out given the costs incurred for putting it in their other cars.

E46CT

Yeah the new 2.5L Turbo is way way WAY far ahead better and more powerful than the old one you have. I know cause i used to have your engine =) 8AR

TechNut

As rumors go, the 2023 RX is also rumored to be dropping the 3.5L in favor of that 2.4L turbo. They are also planning an RX 500h model that will likely be their performance model with an F-Sport badge. All rumors, but as long as we are speculating here, they may introduce an ES hybrid with more performance than the current 350 during the next model refresh. The waning interest in sedans may make that a unlikely prospect though…

Interesting note: they were testing some of these drivetrains in an ES mule.

dezymond

100% agree that media has a lot of influence on the sales of cars and "turbo" is a hotword in the industry. And the way that majority seem to present it now is "with a turbo" or "the non-turbo". Just the structure of the sentence shows a bit of negativity towards NA engines and that the consumer is "missing something".

Also agree that majority don't seem to mind. I've always believed that users on a forum tend to be more passionate and knowledgeable about whatever type forum they're on, in this case Lexus/cars. We make up an extremely small percentage of Lexus owners and although we may be the loudest, we are the ones that are most ignored. Can you imagine the type of cars any manufacturer would make if they had just listened to enthusiasts?

E46CT

Forced induction vs NA generally results in superior performance and fuel economy cause you don't need the fuel to use it whereas the NA engine is gobbling up fuel like no tomorrow.

so yeah NA engines are inferior in this day and age. Take forever to wind out and build power etc. Unless you're talking real NA engines from Porsche or BMW (high performance ones) but you're talking about a regular old grandma V6 here that's 30 years old.

E46CT

enthusiasts make up like 0.03% of car owners. and that's being extremely generous. we probably wouldn't even register on any spreadsheet. it would be a blank white slot lol

BMGS

iTrader: (1)

It should be with 25% more displacement but that still comes with some sort of efficiency penalty. I haven't driven the NX with the new engine but we probably won't need to as we'll likely go to the RZ450e next to replace the NX and a Taycan or Macan EV to replace the GS.

LexFinally

I know what you're saying, but the EPA rated gas mileage improvement is much bigger than the real-world gas mileage improvement. The EPA test has very little vigorous acceleration, where in real-world driving you're dipping into the turbo all the time, sucking gas and erasing most of the advantage.

Unfortunately it's the EPA rating and its associated money costs that carmakers have to respond to.

Separately, you make an interesting point about Toyota being willing to make a running change to the Highlander powertrain. My first instinct is that with the ES being a fairly bespoke car on its own production line, nothing else changing, and Gen 8 only about 15 months away,* it's not worth the changeover cost to Toyota to mess with any aspect of the car until the new gen comes out. At that time, absolutely the V6 is toast.

Speaking for myself, the only way a 2.0T ES would be more tempting to me than the current ES 350 is if AWD becomes part of the recipe. Otherwise you're just taking a giant step backwards in luxurious refinement for a small improvement in MPG and low-rev responsiveness that you don't need. And as for the appeal of low-RPM torque, an FWD ES 350 already can't put its power to the ground, so that "improvement" might well be worse than nothing.

*(Unless Toyota stalls the next gen by a year in a cost-cut move because of the hit to profits they're now seeing from rising component prices. But meanwhile, they wouldn't change the engine out for the same reason anyway.)

dezymond

Exactly. We are the smallest group, but the loudest.