Good Old Kentucky Reliability?
Racer
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 1,404
Likes: 215
From: Texas
I was disappointed to discover today that the 2021 ES 300h is made in Kentucky. 
I went to the dealer looking for an end-of-year deal. They had an overstock of ES's to pick from, and thus, were offering steep discounts. However, I would have to hold my nose to close a deal on one, or at least say "hail Mary" multiple times before signing!
I would be interested in hearing from Kentucky ES owners about their experiences with the quality of their cars. I want to replace my wife's 2011 ES 350, which has had rock-solid reliability. The '97 Avalon she had before the ES was built in Kentucky, and it was nowhere near as reliable as her Japanese-built ES (or any of my previous made-in-Japan Toyotas).
I went to the dealer looking for an end-of-year deal. They had an overstock of ES's to pick from, and thus, were offering steep discounts. However, I would have to hold my nose to close a deal on one, or at least say "hail Mary" multiple times before signing!I would be interested in hearing from Kentucky ES owners about their experiences with the quality of their cars. I want to replace my wife's 2011 ES 350, which has had rock-solid reliability. The '97 Avalon she had before the ES was built in Kentucky, and it was nowhere near as reliable as her Japanese-built ES (or any of my previous made-in-Japan Toyotas).
Driver School Candidate
Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 24
Likes: 2
From: FL
My experience mimics yours Djvan
I am kind of new here, and this will likely be more than you want, but hey, you asked!
Growing up in the 1990s, I was a bonafide Toyota fanboy. I sold enough product to family and friends that I should have received commission. In 1992, at my urging, Mom upgraded her 1987 Camry to an ES 300. Dad followed a year later with a mid-range four-pot ‘93 Camry. Both cars were made in Japan, manufactured during what some consider to be Toyota’s high-water mark. They were both very good but far from perfect. The Lexus was dead reliable until A/C woes surfaced at about the 5-year mark. The Camry was well constructed, but I remember finding a surprising # of flaws in the fit and finish. It also amassed a significant warranty tab, had an appetite for brakes, and required major engine work (valve stem seals) twice in the 150,000 miles that we owned it.
Fast forward to today. I have owned about 25 different cars and trucks, many of them purchased new, some Toyotas but many not. My Kentucky-built ’20 ESh is my first Lexus. Leased in September, it was delivered with a defective passenger seat frame (caused by bad tooling at a U.S. supplier) that caused the seat to lean inboard by several degrees. It took 28 days to repair, and I cannot say that the Lexus response was particularly efficient or worthy of confidence. I have also experienced several other (relatively) minor issues. Would I buy another? I can’t really say.
I can, however, say that my ESh is safer, larger, quieter, smoother, better built, more luxurious and efficient than any vehicle that I have owned before it. It is a better car, hands down, than any of my previous 25 as well as those 1990s-era J-builds that my parents had, and I can find no reason to believe that you receive a lesser Lexus simply because of the country of manufacture.
Do with my advice what you will, but I see no reason to hesitate to purchase a Kentucky car. It may turn out not to be perfect, but nothing really is anyway.
Growing up in the 1990s, I was a bonafide Toyota fanboy. I sold enough product to family and friends that I should have received commission. In 1992, at my urging, Mom upgraded her 1987 Camry to an ES 300. Dad followed a year later with a mid-range four-pot ‘93 Camry. Both cars were made in Japan, manufactured during what some consider to be Toyota’s high-water mark. They were both very good but far from perfect. The Lexus was dead reliable until A/C woes surfaced at about the 5-year mark. The Camry was well constructed, but I remember finding a surprising # of flaws in the fit and finish. It also amassed a significant warranty tab, had an appetite for brakes, and required major engine work (valve stem seals) twice in the 150,000 miles that we owned it.
Fast forward to today. I have owned about 25 different cars and trucks, many of them purchased new, some Toyotas but many not. My Kentucky-built ’20 ESh is my first Lexus. Leased in September, it was delivered with a defective passenger seat frame (caused by bad tooling at a U.S. supplier) that caused the seat to lean inboard by several degrees. It took 28 days to repair, and I cannot say that the Lexus response was particularly efficient or worthy of confidence. I have also experienced several other (relatively) minor issues. Would I buy another? I can’t really say.
I can, however, say that my ESh is safer, larger, quieter, smoother, better built, more luxurious and efficient than any vehicle that I have owned before it. It is a better car, hands down, than any of my previous 25 as well as those 1990s-era J-builds that my parents had, and I can find no reason to believe that you receive a lesser Lexus simply because of the country of manufacture.
Do with my advice what you will, but I see no reason to hesitate to purchase a Kentucky car. It may turn out not to be perfect, but nothing really is anyway.
Toyota salesmen will admit, perhaps after a few 🍻, that FIT & FINISH in Japan assembled vehicles is consistent.
Only problem is today due to NAFTA there is 3% levy on vehicles assembled outside NAFTA/North America.
The lack of excellence to any labor job in North America reflects on the pay and passion of the laborers 🤷🏻♂️
Instructor
Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 901
Likes: 266
From: Delaware
Last edited by ionian; Jan 6, 2021 at 10:39 AM.
Instructor
Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 901
Likes: 266
From: Delaware
From what I gathered there is some truth to this statement. A good example is Nissan. U.S made ones overall has lower quality than the ones rolling out of japan. Their supply chain is different and more stringent over there.
Driver School Candidate
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 8
Likes: 3
From: NC
New plant build quality
Interesting discussion. I retired from selling Lexus in 2017. I was there when the first RX's were built in Canada. Since the RX was almost 1/3 or our sales, we were very concerned about any difference in build quality. Our fears were unwarranted. Salespeople, technicians and most importantly customers, couldn't tell the difference without looking at the VIN. I strongly suspect the ES made in Kentucky will achieve the same goals.
Racer
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 1,404
Likes: 215
From: Texas
Interesting discussion. I retired from selling Lexus in 2017. I was there when the first RX's were built in Canada. Since the RX was almost 1/3 or our sales, we were very concerned about any difference in build quality. Our fears were unwarranted. Salespeople, technicians and most importantly customers, couldn't tell the difference without looking at the VIN. I strongly suspect the ES made in Kentucky will achieve the same goals.
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 68,092
Likes: 3,870
From: Maryland
How do you explain the fact that Lexus models built in Japan are more reliable than other models (not always the same models) built throughout North America? This has been continuous since Lexus’s inception. But, if supply chains are the same as you imply, the manufacturing is the same. Since the quality is NOT the same across all models, how do you explain that?
Racer
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 1,404
Likes: 215
From: Texas
I honestly don’t remember. Some came from Consumer Reports surveys. Several car publications have discussed this over a long period of time. The LX is made in Japan, as well as the GX. Both models are consistently more reliable than the RX, but are sold in lower numbers. If I find the direct quote, I’ll post it separately on this thread.
I don’t have a ton of experience with the ES, but the loaners I’ve had, proved to be solid, well built cars that don’t suffer from the same annoying afflictions as the RX.
I don’t have a ton of experience with the ES, but the loaners I’ve had, proved to be solid, well built cars that don’t suffer from the same annoying afflictions as the RX.
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Intermediate
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 252
Likes: 4
From: California
[QUOTE=gadgetman1;10967161]I honestly don’t remember. Some came from Consumer Reports surveys. Several car publications have discussed this over a long period of time. The LX is made in Japan, as well as the GX. Both models are consistently more reliable than the RX, but are sold in lower numbers. If I find the direct quote, I’ll post it separately on this thread.
This is like waving a red flag at a bull, Gadgetman, because some people here get enraged at the mere mention of his name, but "Scotty," a YouTube poster with 53 years experience repairing cars (and hundreds of millions of YT views, perhaps a trillion) advises to only buy Toyotas, new or used, that were made in Japan. It may be a matter of work ethic culture and/or more stringent quality control, but in his extensive experience, U.S.-built Toyota vehicles have more problems and are more poorly assembled that those made in Japan. He also finds cars made in Canada are better built than U.S.-built counterparts.
This is like waving a red flag at a bull, Gadgetman, because some people here get enraged at the mere mention of his name, but "Scotty," a YouTube poster with 53 years experience repairing cars (and hundreds of millions of YT views, perhaps a trillion) advises to only buy Toyotas, new or used, that were made in Japan. It may be a matter of work ethic culture and/or more stringent quality control, but in his extensive experience, U.S.-built Toyota vehicles have more problems and are more poorly assembled that those made in Japan. He also finds cars made in Canada are better built than U.S.-built counterparts.
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 68,092
Likes: 3,870
From: Maryland
Racer
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 1,404
Likes: 215
From: Texas
I was NOT referring to Scotty. He’s right on some things & wrong on others. I take him with a grain of salt. I was referring to REAL automotive journalism that often point out quality issues & trends.
I am agreeing with whoever was taking about waving red flags at a bull. The best quality comes from Japan, followed by Canada & then the USA. My question is WHY? They are are all good in comparison to other makes, but WHY are Japanese made Lexus & Toyotas better than the rest? If it’s supply chain, why aren’t they standardized across the board? Is this a cost cutting situation? Toyota quality has slipped, so something is being done different.
I am agreeing with whoever was taking about waving red flags at a bull. The best quality comes from Japan, followed by Canada & then the USA. My question is WHY? They are are all good in comparison to other makes, but WHY are Japanese made Lexus & Toyotas better than the rest? If it’s supply chain, why aren’t they standardized across the board? Is this a cost cutting situation? Toyota quality has slipped, so something is being done different.