gpreston24

Current 2014 ES hybrid owner looking to trade up to a 2019 ES 350 or 300h. Living in Dallas, I have sometimes felt the need for better acceleration, especially when merging onto one our many tollways. With that in mind, I had been thinking that the 350 would be a better choice. On the other hand, I really appreciate not having to fill up the tank so often. My gas mileage indicator usually indicates around 32-33 mpg in mixed driving here. So now I'm thinking maybe the hybrid would be the better choice. I've previously owned 2 other hybrids--a 2010 Camry and the 2014 ES300h.

Do you get better mileage in your 7th-gen hybrid? How about the acceleration? Better or about the same as 6th gen?

Thanks!

Gerry

zes

There is only a 15 hp difference. I doubt if you will feel it much unless you really floor it. The ESh is somewhat sluggish merging on the highway and it gets worse at altitude. I live in Denver. It is fine once it is up to speed. Sport mode helps with merging a bit.

jimv1983

I've never driven a pre-7th gen ES so I can't compare to that but up until I got my 2019 ES 300h 2 weeks ago I had a 2011 Camry hybrid so I can offer a comparison between the two. I recently filled the tank on my car for the second time. The first tank got 37 MPG and the second got 41 MPG. The 3rd tank so far seems to be doing a little better. As far as acceleration I've spent most of my time in the Eco drive mode and the acceleration isn't a lot better than the Camry hybrid but it is noticable. In Normal and especially Sport mode the acceleration is a lot better than my Camry hybrid. Personally a 1.5 seconds better 0-60 time wasn't worth it to me compared to the 50% improvement of the hybrid over the V6. I didn't even bother test driving the V6 since I knew I didn't want a drop in MPG over the Camry.

If you really care about that 1.5 seconds better 0-60 and don't mind the worse MPG then the ES350 is your best bet. If you found the acceleration of the Camry hybrid to be acceptable I don't think you'll be disappointed with the ES300h.

jimv1983

The acceleration of the hybrid is actually better at the lower end because of the electric motor. I have no issues merging onto the highway even in Eco. I wouldn't call Eco mode exciting but more than sufficient. Sport mode is actually fun in my opinion. I don't think it's worth a 50% drop in MPG for that 1.5 seconds saved getting to 60.

peteharvey

New 2019 ES300h is more powerful, but also heavier!
Now, 0-60 is slightly slower if I'm not wrong?
The new ES350 is also fractionally slower than the old ES350.

New 2019 ES300h certainly has better economy than old ES300h.
However, are you after superior mileage, or do you want to fill the tank less often?
Why I ask is because the new 2019 ES300h has its NiMH battery pack sandwiched between the rear seat base and the fuel tank - such that the fuel tank is now about 3.3 gallons smaller in capacity for a reduced maximum range, hence more frequent refilling will be required.
On the bright side, now you have a full size trunk; although the new 350's trunk is smaller than the outgoing model due to the new lower roof line and the "pinched" rear styling.

jimv1983

With vastly better mileage you don't need as big of a tank to get the same or better range.

The combined MPG of the 300h is 44MPG and it has a 13.2 gallon tank. That's about 580 miles range for a full tank.

The combined MPG of the 350 is 27MPG and it has a 15.9 gallon tank. That's about 429 miles range on a full tank.

Even at the high end the 350 is rated at 33MPG which gives a range of 525 miles.

At the low end the 300h is rated at 43 but let's say it's as low as 40 MPG. That still means a range of 528 miles.

To put it simply, the MPG is SO much better on the hybrid that the 2.7 difference in tank size isn't enough to make up for it.

peteharvey

Can you give us the range for the old ES300h versus the range for the new ES300h with the new smaller fuel tank sandwich?

jimv1983

The previous 300h had a 17.2 gallon tank and 40MPG. That's a range of 688 miles.

The 2019 300h has a 13.2 gallon tank and 44MPG. That's a range of 581.

So yes, if you are comparing the 2019 300h to the 2018 300h then yes the range decreased. However, the money spent on gas goes down with the 2019 which I think is the most important part.

I thought the comparison was the 2019 350 vs the 2019 300h. Maybe I misunderstood.

peteharvey

Similar happened to me as I went from 3GS to 4GS; the fuel tank actually decreased in size - now with 4GS, I have to refuel much more often, and it is a bit of a pain sometimes...

jimv1983

I don't expect the difference would be that big. The tank only went down by 1.4 gallons and the MPG improved a little.

peteharvey

With 3GS to 4GS, the tank went down by 1.4 gallons, and despite claims of improved MPG, my MPG actually got worse in real driving conditions, because 4GS also got heavier too.

gpreston24

Thanks for all the responses, Guys. I've decided to get the 2019 hybrid, because I simply do not want a reduction of mpg down to the level of the ES 350. Also, I'm anxious to go to the Ultra Luxury with all its goodies. Trading in the 2014 Luxury level.

Gerry

jimv1983

I did the same. Although I did skip the triple beam headlights. I just didn't see the $1500 being worth it. I've put 1000 miles on my car already and I was hoping for better mileage. Based on the EPA estimates and actual real world reports from owners I was hoping for like 44 but I've been getting 40-41. Still, far better than the probably 26 MPG I'd be getting on the ES 350.

peteharvey

Horses for courses.
Each engine type has its pros and cons.
300h requires very gentle driving - can't wring much better than 0-60 in 8+ seconds, and the four cylinder isn't quite as silky smooth either.

jimv1983

So far I have been gentle with it just to see how good of MPG I could get. I'm fine with the 0-60 time. The acceleration, even is Eco, is better than my old Camry hybrid which I thought was acceptable. To me an improvement of 1.5 seconds better 0-60 wasn't worth the huge decrease in MPG. Especially since I don't do anything that would really need it.