Just tried a UX300h for a week and the seats were more comfortable than the ones in my 25' ES300h. This car is $20,000 cheaper than my ES and yet the seats are softer and more comfortable, what is up with that?

 

The ES has the worst seats among all Lexus models

 

I've owned two gen 7 ES cars and don't understand the complaints about the seats. First was a 2013 Lux and now I have a 2019 UL with the thigh extender that I have never used. I'm 5'10" and weigh 170#. I find the seats comfortable after adjusting them to my comfort. Is it that some are overweight or much taller?

 

Blame it on the “sports” craze that swept the industry, egged on by the automotive press who decry “boring” and “un-engaging” cars, in the apparent belief that our daily driving actually consists of speeding along tricky switchbacks in what Car and Driver refers to as “canyon carving”. Spare me. So makers, not wanting to sell “old man cars”, had better listen up. Thus, even a car not designed to actually be sporty but a comfortable cruiser, had to have hard seats, large hard bolsters and a firmer rider. part of the “Lexus Driving Signature”, designed to be “engaging”, “dynamic” with “optimized suspension”, blah blah blah - and use it to attract younger buyers (look at the brochures - do young people really commonly buy an ES??). In other words make it less comfortable for the average buyer of this car wanted. The cheapest way for most makers to achieve all of that was just to firm up the ride and the seats, and add larger wheels & tires with less sidewall, and TADA, faux sportiness. From sedans like the ES to minivans to SUVs/CUVs, it ruined a lot of cars, and there has been no shortage of similar complaints across brand lines. Lexus just didn’t do a very good job of reading a large segment of their customer base. To further illustrate the craziness of it, look at how many brands have added adaptive suspensions and numerous tweaks to counter what they had created, all of which might smooth out the ride, for instance, but at greater complexity and cost, just like those bigger wheels/tires cost more to put on at the factory and to replace when owned. This also means that the higher you move up the trim chain on many lines, including the ES, the wheel and tire size also increases, like it’s a bonus to get even firmer sensation. But Lexus didn’t bother to tweak the ES over the years in this gen, probably knowing it was going to fundamentally change its character, as we see in the forthcoming generation.

There’s nothing wrong with want a sporty drive, don’t get me wrong. It can be a lot of fun if that’s what you’re looking for. But many buyers, thinking they’ll like it, have come to regret it - that cool feeling on a five minute test drive vanishes when you’re actually driving the car in daily use on our now pretty commonly lousy American roads, pot holes, frost heaves and lumpy “repairs” everywhere - now that cool ride is tiresome and uncomfortable.

 

UX is a great car. been singing its praises since day 1. Believe it or not that little car has better side crash protection than ES.

I like it cuz its the spiritual successor to the Ct200h which i think is the greatest car lexus ever made. Particularly 14+ F sport variant.

 

CT, I have posted this correction literally at least five times. Yet you keep flogging this tired old talking point as an embittered ex-ES owner who still insists on posting here, all the while taunting current ES enthusiasists by posting as your own personal avatar the CEO's face shot from a rival brand you now prefer.

So, yet again: This design was brought to market in 2018. At that time, it earned the top rating for side-impact protection. Since then, side-impact standards have been toughened, resulting in newer designs being modified to meet them.

You have repeatedly misrepresented this set of facts to make it sound almost as if Lexus has knowingly foisted off a carelessly designed death trap on the public. In doing so, you needlessly terrify those not familiar with the facts, while presumably giving yourself some sort of personal satisfaction in the process. It's deceptive and irresponsible. Stop it.

 

I agree, but it's complicated. It's hard to fault Lexus for sh!tting the bed when the previous generation came to a close and they saw the age of the average ES buyer had crept up to 67. As Buick proved, that's not a sustainable business model.

The seats, yeah. I feel the same way when I sit in them. The wheels, that's more complicated too. Side-impact safety requirements (the same ones CT keeps flogging in such deceptive fashion) now force all automakers to build tall slab-sided bodies that can take a hit from a tall SUV. Visually, that's so ungainly it violates the natural proportions that stylists know look good on a car. The only way to keep these sedans from looking like tiny-wheeled golf carts is to add giant-diameter bling wheels, which is why the priciest models have wheels that are attractively even blingier -- hence, even dysfunctionally bigger. I wish from a function perspective that my UL had smaller wheels, but I'll also admit I'm a sucker for how pretty they look. Carmakers, including Lexus, aren't in the business of making cars that function ideally, much as we wish it otherwise. They have to be in the business of making cars that people will walk into a showroom, gawk at, and buy.

 

I love my ES FSport seats and also love the seats in my wife's RX which I presume are similar to the non FSport seats in the ES. All personal preference. The thread title should read something like ES SEATS HORRIBLE FOR ME

 

I have also sat and drove the ux I also noticed that the seats were a lot more comfortable than the es. I was quickly able to get into a comfortable position in the ux. The ux didn't drive as nice as the es350 ultra luxury I have but I guess that does not even matter since I can't even drive the es anymore, the seats are that bad. I am really really really REALLY disappointed in my 2025 es350 ULTRA LUXURY the moment when I sat in a 10 year old Camry with base seats and found those seats to be a lot more comfortable. I have not sat in the base es350 but I assume those seats are more comfortable then the luxury+ trims where they definitely slapped sport seats with very stiff side bolsters onto those trims for some crazy unknown reason. I guess the stiff side bolsters is what makes the seats less comfortable where the ux I drove did not have that. I was very puzzled to learn that the es has more aggressive and stiff bolstering than my Porsche and Jaguar sport cars. Did Lexus really think people were going to take high G turns in their es?

 

At least it's consistent with the 235/45R18

 

I think the seats are excellent in my 25 es350ul. Sounds like the ones not happy prefer the old flat soft seats from decades ago that don't hold you in place at all. Maybe a 72 Buick Electra 225 would be a better choice.

 

I just can't imagine buying a new, $50k+ luxury sedan and then deciding I couldn't drive it anymore after comparing my new car seats to a 10 year old Camry. Even harder to believe someone would admit it on a forum like this. To each his own.

Both my wife and I love our 2024 ES300h Luxury and have no complaints about seat comfort.

 

Or how a reasonable test drive doesnt reveal the issue. Years ago, we were shopping for an RX - they had an FSport model in the showroom- those bolsters are actually much tighter than the ones in my ES. In any event, we both just sat in the car for a minute or two and knew right away that model wasn't for us.

 

Comfort is very subjective. The most critical factor in any seating setup is proper positioning relative to your desk, keyboard, or steering wheel.

I personally deal with an L5 disc bulge/sciatica and empathize with anyone experiencing back pain. Before my diagnosis, I used a large, plush memory foam office chair that felt "incredibly comfortable". However, after being diagnosed, I was advised to switch to an ergonomic chair and ended up investing big $$$ in a HM Embody chair. At first, I hated it, the seat has less than half an inch of padding over a plastic mesh, and compared to my cushy Office Depot chair, it felt anything but comfortable. I honestly thought I had wasted my money in snake oil. But after giving it a few weeks, something changed: while it never felt "plush", my back pain disappeared, and I could sit for hours without needing to stretch compared to the original chair. Now, I’m fully convinced that ergonomic chairs, though pricey, are worth every penny for seat working.

Still we all have different bodies types and there's no way a single chair will suit everyone 100%. If my ESH seats were to ever cause back pain despite proper positioning, I’d replace the car without hesitation. Fortunately, after 2+ yrs of ownership, I still find my seats very comfortable, firm, but supportive.

 

That was pretty snarky.... How about a 2025 Genesis G80 for comfortable seats! And the people that aren't happy are the ones that fit inside the very stiff side bolsters. There is nothing wrong with the seats that you sit on, it's the pressure from the stiff, unnecessary side bolsters. If your rear end is large enough, you're probably sitting on top of the bolsters and squishing them down.