It isn't, rather the Avalon, but the Avalon is based on the Camry and by extension so is the ES. The bones of ES are near 100% Camry. All intrusion/force measurements are the same as well. In fact if you're splitting hairs, Camry is safer. ES uses Camry bones, except with extra 600 lbs weight. The suspension and powertrain and electrical architecture is all identical. ive been down this rabbithole. do not challenge me on this. i have all the body in white blueprints as well as all technical/body repair manuals saved for this very argument. i researched this when I owned ES in 2021, so not like i'm trying to retroactively make ES lesser than it is. I just think people falsely think its distinct from the camry engineering wise.

it's not. at all.

ES is of course nicer exterior and added features and a bit better quality. but the bones are all Camry/Avalon (Camry slash avalon)

 

In 2021, it was a flip of the coin for me whether to buy a new top of the line, fully equipped beautiful, last Avalon or well equipped new ES 350 base w Premium package, power trunk, intuitive parking assist, wood trim, etc. The Lexus was about $6,000 more as I recall. I went for the Lexus, figuring a discontinued model wouldn’t hold its value as well as the Lexus would. I’m pleased with the Lexus and satisfied with my decision.
But I wonder—-Knowing these Toyota products as well as you do, what would you have done? Cash deal for me and every penny wasn’t critical.

 

Here we go yet again. No, the ES is not "based on" or "derived from" either the Camry or the Avalon. All three were jointly developed from a common set of Toyota platform parameters known as the TNGA architecture. If you know this as well as your incessant "I've got the body-in-white blueprints" claims, you of all people shouldn't be getting this basic fact wrong over and over again.

 

Also being retired from Philly PD I agree with almost all that you state. One exception, I'd like to see the Phillies make the playoffs and win for a change...

 

I think you may have a better shot at it than we do. At least your ownership spends money for talent. Ours is concerned only with the bottom line of profit. Enjoy your team. Daughter in Downingtown shares your Phillies allegiance!

 

Could be worse - dare I say Met fan😣

 

One thing I am sure we can count on for the ES update is that it won't have a full electric option. Lexus must be loosing an enormous amount on the RZ. I see on dealers site where Lexus lease cash back on some is $21,500 and others at $32,000 discounted price. Apparently the consumer does have a voice in what they want to drive.

 

The RZ was doomed from the moment of its release because Lexus didn't commit the real resources to it that competitors have. It's a gas-engine chassis retrofitted with an undersized battery that fails to meet even today's most ordinary range expectations. It's an experiment and an internal training exercise, period, and Lexus is smart enough to know it.

My expectation for quite a while now is that if there's to be a next-generation LS, it will be a battery-electric vehicle and probably a crossover. Expensive innovation on a dedicated all-new platform is not the ES's role; the ES's success has been built for 30 years on affordable luxury made possible by the sharing of family-car components. The Camry and Crown are hybrids now, and the next ES will generally be that as well.

 

I agree. I just looked at the specs for the RZ and even the AWD versions don't have the performance numbers they should have - not even close - to compete. My wife has a 2020 GMC Denali with the 6.2L engine in it and she wants a smaller SUV. I looked at Lexus and they have nothing smaller that comes close to the performance of the Denali. My wife is spoiled by that performance because she drove a 2012 GX460 for eight years before I bought her the Denali. Lexus needs to step it up if it wants to compete!

 

I don’t believe Lexus wants to compete in a performance segment. It is my opinion that their target is more oriented towards “comfort” and “luxury” rather than performance. Lexus only has a couple of models that are mild performance cars (such as the RC or LC) and none are crossovers. I just can’t imagine this is their target market. Again, just my opinion based on previous models.

 

That’s too bad. The ride, comfort, and technology in the Denali is excellent. As long as my wife is satisfied with it we won’t go back to a Lexus SUV. As I said she drove a GX460 for eight years and after getting the Denali wouldn’t go back to the GX.

 

Next Gen will likely be announced in 2025. We already know what it looks like.

 

Early 2025 or late in the year? Where’s the closest thing to an image or creation that can be seen? I’m curious?

 

I am sure it will be revealed in 2025 as a 2026 model. We don’t know anything about the looks.

 

Precisely - all this nonsense speculation.