I've been planning to get an ES 300h for some time but was sidetracked by family responsibilities necessitating the purchase of an Outlander PHEV babymobile. I'm hoping to get an ES soon but it will have to be used, probably under 30k CAD. This means if it's going to be a 7th Gen it will have very high mileage. Here is a 2019 with 160k kms for 30k, and here's a 2018 with 82k kms for 32k.

Any thoughts on which would be a better choice? I've heard the 7th Gen is a big improvement and I prefer the exterior but I think I like the interior of the 6th Gen more, especially with the wood (although I've never seen one in person).

 

7th gen is a better car mechanically and safety wise, but 6th gen interior may feel higher quality and more "lexus like." also build quality on 6th gen is better. for 7th gen i wouldn't bother unless 22+, 23+ preferred.

 

Interesting. In what ways is 7th gen better mechanically? And why only bother with 22+ 7th gen?

I'd like to get one that is made in Japan, but perhaps both 6th & 7th gen still are?

As for safety, I don't care about technological aids (lane keeping assist, etc.) but I gather the early 6th gen (pre-2015, I think) did poorly on IIHS small overlap crash tests, so I'd definitely want to avoid those models.

 

I think 7GEN are built in US but I wouldn't worry about that. My 2019 ES has been trouble free for five+ years now and 70K miles.

 

The current generation ES is built in Kentucky, but there have been news reports for sometime now that the next generation ES will again be produced in Japan so as to free space in the Kentucky plant for other models, like more SUV’s.

 

Probably worse transmission speaking - 6GEN has 6 speed?

 

Some 7th Gen cars were built in Japan. My 300h was built in Japan in April of 2019. I am wondering if they were just a little slower to spin up hybrids at the US plant? Alternatively, perhaps just some of the western US cars came from overseas? I don’t know why, but my car has a Japanese serial number and the door label confirms this. Just offering some clarification, but I do get the sense from comments made here that MOST 7th gen cars, including hybrids, were built in the US.

 

According to this Lexus Enthusiast article LEXUS TO BUILD ES 300H HYBRID SEDANS IN KENTUCKY, Lexus didn't start ES 300h production at the US Kentucky manufacturing plant until May 2019. So, any US sold 2019 ES 300h with a manufacturing date prior to May 2019 would have to be assembled in Japan.

 

I've been in the 7th gen a couple of times and it drives beautifully, nice look inside and out. I'll have to try 6th gen to see the difference. I'm just worried about a dip in quality materials and craftsmanship in current Lexus models. I test drove a 2022 NX and was shocked to see interior panels misaligned/sticking out - it was made in Cambridge, ON so I'm not sure if that's the issue or not. Reply

 

I think you'll find 99 our of 100 folks here have had no craftsmanship issues. Maybe a few creaking/rattling spots but those are easily remedied.

 

Like F3Woody said. Based on what I've both seen and lived:

•7th Gen is very reliable, 6th Gen even moreso. That's somewhat offset by the fact that the 6th Gen you buy now is an older car when you buy it. Some 2019 and 2020 owners report some rough shifting at low speeds, and there was a run of bad fuel pumps in part of 2019-20 across a number of Toyota and Lexus models that included the ES. Most of those that were going to fail have either failed or been replaced by now.

•The 6th Gen is a bit more bulletproof mechanically for the same reason it doesn't perform quite as well: because it lacks the performance and MPG improvers of direct injection and an 8-speed transmission.

•The supposed inferior workmanship of U.S. ES's that has been mentioned at times is, IMO, wildly overstated.

•Most people, including professional testers, say the 7th Gen drives better. Some described the 6th Gen as so softly sprung that it practically dragged its door handles on the ground in hard cornering. The 7th Gen is much more nimble, without a big ride sacrifice except in F Sport Handling models.

As with any car, try before you buy. But the bottom line is that, like every ES generation ever, they're all good.

 

I'm thinking of buying a new 2024 ES 350 Luxury and I have a question about the NAV System. Does that system require a monthly fee to operate?
To use that system in a traditional way, (i.e., request directions to local street address) would I have to be paying a monthly fee?

Oh, I have a '13 ES 350 Luxury and the NAV unit is completely free.
Also, I listen to local radio stations and don't pay for XMRadio (although after 10 years it's still trying to sign me up ... :-)
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My karma just ran over your dogma
Current Hers: '13 Lexus ES350
Current Mine: '15 Jaguar XF

 

2023 and later model year ESs require an active (trial or paid) subscription for the Drive Connect Cloud Navigation system to operate. From the 2024 LEXUS ES250, ES350, ES300H MULTIMEDIA OWNER'S MANUAL USA AND CANADA ONLY on page 108:
A new 2024 ES equipped with a 12.3 inch touch screen has a 3 year trial subscription to Drive Connect's bundle of navigation services (Cloud Navigation, Intelligent Assistant, and Destination Assist). While a new 2024 ES equipped with a 8 inch touch screen is cable of providing Drive Connect's bundle of navigation services, that configuration doesn't come with a trial subscription and will require enrolling in a paid Drive Connect subscription to use those services.

After a trial subscription (if any) has expired, a paid Drive Connect subscription costing $16 per month is required to use Drive Connect related services. (The monthly cost is taken from Lexus 2023 Connected Services Chart (pdf) 2023 ES table section.)

 

I'll admit I'm still unclear on the answer to OP's question (and as a '22 owner, next year at this time I'll find out the answer): If you don't have Drive Connect related services, such as downloadable updates to the database and real-time traffic, will the basic navigation function of showing you a route to an address still worik?

 

The navigation equipped 2022 ESs (equipped with 12.3 inch touchscreen) were/are still using the "old" Dynamic Navigation system which uses an installed firmware navigation database supplemented with dynamic updates necessary for route guidance and current local vicinity map displaying. Once the trial or paid subscription expires, any and all of the dynamic updates are purged from the vehicle's system; however, the on-board Navigation system will continue to function albeit using just the data that was last installed in the navigation firmware database. (See the "Temporary updates of the map" section on page 114 of the 2022 LEXUS ES250,ES300H,ES350 NAVIGATION AND MULTIMEDIA SYSTEM OWNER'S MANUAL for details. For some reason only the 2019 and 2020 through Sept. 2019 production manuals' illustration of the Map Data screen shows an "Expiration date" entry but subsequent manual versions through to and including the 2022 version doesn't show an "Expiration date" entry on the Map Data screen. )

For a 2022 ES the last installed navigation database will most likely be the version installed when the vehicle was built. So, if the address existed along with the roads need for a "sensible" route and was in the database loaded into your ES when it was built then even after the expiration date has expired the navigation system will continue to function as you're used to. You just won't get temporary map updates downloaded from the cloud nor downloaded from the cloud destination routing.

Part of the $169 + dealer installation labor charge (if any) 2 year paid Dynamic Navigation subscription cost is updating the on-board navigation map database to the latest version of the database.

While it is just anecdotal, although I had the dealer's service department update the navigation firmware database along with changing over to a 2 year paid subscription, my Map Data screen was still showing an "Expired" expiration date. During the several months long period it took the service department and Lexus corporate support to work out a fix, my navigation system continued to function with route routing navigation and moving map display. I presume the system was operating off of the firmware database but since I wasn't tasking the system with any demand that may have required temporary mapping data downloaded from the cloud I couldn't readily tell any difference in operation.