ES350 or Tesla Model Y
Thread Starter
Intermediate
Joined: Dec 2020
Posts: 271
Likes: 80
From: Dubai
I agree with this comment. I hate Elon Musk with a passion, but there are some very appealing aspects to Tesla vehicles, as shown by their owners' enthusiasm for them. The very best thing about Tesla, at least in the States, is their unmatched and exclusive charger network, which makes Tesla the only viable EV option for cross-country travel. They've been innovative, by all accounts their cars are very capable on the road, and their technology is as proven as any electric car is.
All that said, I personally would not trust Tesla as an ownership experience. I think the high-handed attitude you've encountered about test drives is a little taste of that. Parts and service sound pretty hit-and-miss. Unlike other makes, Tesla has you at their mercy for both. They've already shown a willingness to be unethical toward their owners when it comes to things like yanking the rug out by charging for capabilities built into the car that were free or, worse, were already paid for. They've reportedly taken an alarmingly cavalier attitude toward safety regulations and the safety aspects of parts quality. And their approach to self-driving software has been somewhere between deceptive and criminally negligent. A Tesla will probably be cheaper to drive than any gas-powered car. But in terms of both mechanical reliability and emotional capital spent on ownership, I trust Lexus as an organization 100 times more than Tesla, and when it's my money that difference is all the difference in the world.
All that said, I personally would not trust Tesla as an ownership experience. I think the high-handed attitude you've encountered about test drives is a little taste of that. Parts and service sound pretty hit-and-miss. Unlike other makes, Tesla has you at their mercy for both. They've already shown a willingness to be unethical toward their owners when it comes to things like yanking the rug out by charging for capabilities built into the car that were free or, worse, were already paid for. They've reportedly taken an alarmingly cavalier attitude toward safety regulations and the safety aspects of parts quality. And their approach to self-driving software has been somewhere between deceptive and criminally negligent. A Tesla will probably be cheaper to drive than any gas-powered car. But in terms of both mechanical reliability and emotional capital spent on ownership, I trust Lexus as an organization 100 times more than Tesla, and when it's my money that difference is all the difference in the world.
Dear Customer,
Thank you for reaching out.
Due to operational reasons, we regret to inform you that we will not be able to accommodate your Test Drive request at this time.
Test Drive Bookings will resume approximately in August and you will be able to schedule an appointment through our Website.
Thank you for your understanding.
Kind regards,
Tesla Team
Thread Starter
Intermediate
Joined: Dec 2020
Posts: 271
Likes: 80
From: Dubai
I just spoke to the dealer here in the UAE for the es 350 and he said that they will be delivering 2022 cars even in Jan of 2023 as they are back ordered. They said that for Lexus UAE market isin't that big to focus on over Saudi. Something does not smell right.
Another salesperson in the same place told me to put down money and hope for the best as there are chip shortages.
I wonder how people are getting their 2023 ordered.
Another salesperson in the same place told me to put down money and hope for the best as there are chip shortages.
I wonder how people are getting their 2023 ordered.
Driver
Joined: Feb 2021
Posts: 70
Likes: 15
From: Dubai
Hi Everyone. I have decided on the ES 350 Lux 2023 model and am also considering a Tesla Model Y as the price range on both are similar in UAE where I live. I really like the ES 350 vs the ES 300h due to the v6 engine etc. As for the Tesla Model Y, I am not necessarily liking the interiors much to conclude. I even had a look at the Lexus RZ450e and really dislike the design on that one.
Any pointers to help me lean in a direction? I know the question is vague but any pointers would help.
Any pointers to help me lean in a direction? I know the question is vague but any pointers would help.
Go for the ES 350 platinum hands down!
Tesla is joke in terms of reliability , quality and value for what you get. I admire Tesla what it is trying to do.. however the tech and production is immature compared to lexus.
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 9,525
Likes: 2,585
Probably in UAE, a gas car is going to be king for a long while. I don't know how the charging infrastructure is there but I'm guessing it's not as mature or not much emphasis as there is here.
I think a lot of the criticism of Tesla in this thread is deserved but I also think it's a lot of old-school regurgitation of an old-school timeline. I can write 10-15 pages on this topic but the takeaway is 2023 Teslas are a lot better than 2012. Universes away. And how they engineer cars are literally way way WAY more advanced than anything mankind has ever even dreamt of, let alone actually built, in the entire automotive industry. They just need to iron out some details and production issues. But the designs and blueprints and construction (not assembly) are out of this world good (for 2023+ Teslas). I'm talking deep deep stuff. Not a misaligned fender or paint chips (which of course is annoying and not acceptable) they just have to iron out stupid crap like that.
Basically:
Tesla= Way smarter, but crappy assembly and production
All other cars= Dumb to dumber, but very refined assembly and production.
I think a lot of the criticism of Tesla in this thread is deserved but I also think it's a lot of old-school regurgitation of an old-school timeline. I can write 10-15 pages on this topic but the takeaway is 2023 Teslas are a lot better than 2012. Universes away. And how they engineer cars are literally way way WAY more advanced than anything mankind has ever even dreamt of, let alone actually built, in the entire automotive industry. They just need to iron out some details and production issues. But the designs and blueprints and construction (not assembly) are out of this world good (for 2023+ Teslas). I'm talking deep deep stuff. Not a misaligned fender or paint chips (which of course is annoying and not acceptable) they just have to iron out stupid crap like that.
Basically:
Tesla= Way smarter, but crappy assembly and production
All other cars= Dumb to dumber, but very refined assembly and production.
Driver
Joined: Feb 2021
Posts: 70
Likes: 15
From: Dubai
Probably in UAE, a gas car is going to be king for a long while. I don't know how the charging infrastructure is there but I'm guessing it's not as mature or not much emphasis as there is here.
I think a lot of the criticism of Tesla in this thread is deserved but I also think it's a lot of old-school regurgitation of an old-school timeline. I can write 10-15 pages on this topic but the takeaway is 2023 Teslas are a lot better than 2012. Universes away. And how they engineer cars are literally way way WAY more advanced than anything mankind has ever even dreamt of, let alone actually built, in the entire automotive industry. They just need to iron out some details and production issues. But the designs and blueprints and construction (not assembly) are out of this world good (for 2023+ Teslas). I'm talking deep deep stuff. Not a misaligned fender or paint chips (which of course is annoying and not acceptable) they just have to iron out stupid crap like that.
Basically:
Tesla= Way smarter, but crappy assembly and production
All other cars= Dumb to dumber, but very refined assembly and production.
I think a lot of the criticism of Tesla in this thread is deserved but I also think it's a lot of old-school regurgitation of an old-school timeline. I can write 10-15 pages on this topic but the takeaway is 2023 Teslas are a lot better than 2012. Universes away. And how they engineer cars are literally way way WAY more advanced than anything mankind has ever even dreamt of, let alone actually built, in the entire automotive industry. They just need to iron out some details and production issues. But the designs and blueprints and construction (not assembly) are out of this world good (for 2023+ Teslas). I'm talking deep deep stuff. Not a misaligned fender or paint chips (which of course is annoying and not acceptable) they just have to iron out stupid crap like that.
Basically:
Tesla= Way smarter, but crappy assembly and production
All other cars= Dumb to dumber, but very refined assembly and production.
agree tesla and other EV are the future...
but if you are spending $55k+ on car i want it perfect...but that's just me
Instructor
Joined: Mar 2021
Posts: 887
Likes: 531
From: Alberta
Some people mistakenly think Tesla builds better cars today versus years ago. That is laughably untrue.
From a couple weeks ago:
"I took delivery of my 22 Model Y Performance about three weeks ago. I've had a really rough go and find myself almost sick to my stomach when I think about how much I paid vs the quality of vehicle I got. Some of the challenges I've had are included below. As expected, it had some pretty horrendous paint defects on delivery (like 8-10 inch scratches), so I sent it out to get paint corrected and ceramic coated. This cleaned up like 90% of those defects which was great. After driving it for a few miles I found/heard lots of other issues. Among many other smaller issues, I noticed: the steering wheel has to be turned 4 or 5 degrees to the right for the car to go straight, the front left suspension has a metal-on-metal thunking sound with every bump, the front right suspension makes a pretty awful grinding noise when turning right, and several pieces of trim rattle (the primary offender being some deep, loud rattle by the windshield). The quality of trim is also disappointing with poorly fitting plastics everywhere and sweaty seat material. Also, for some reason the steering wheel feels tiny (?). Not necessarily an issue with my particular car, but it rides like a freight train. I feel every little bump in the road, and I'm sure this just accentuates the rattles I'm hearing. I fear that I got a car that was slapped together before the turn of the quarter - when the assembly line is rushed and cars are pushed out as fast as possible."
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/thre...rmance.273297/
also from a few weeks ago:
"Yesterday my car shut down in the freeway close to my home here in Switzerland (see picture below for a flying Model Y)
We had just entered the autobahn (freeway) and accelerated to 120 km/h (75 mph). After 20 seconds I got the error: “power reduced rear motor temporarily disabled”. After 5-10 seconds I completely lost power, and we couldn’t make it to the next exit and had to stop in the emergency lane.
We called Tesla immediately and after 10 minutes they concluded that we couldn’t do anything, and had to get towed. They “allegedly” called roadside assistance (TCS) in Switzerland, and after 25 minutes, after I had called them back 3 times, said that they couldn’t get in touch with roadside assistance, and that we had to call the police and ask them to get us out of there while leaving the car. WTF!!??
I called TCS myself, they picked up after 2 minutes and where there after 20. Embarrassing from Tesla Roadside assistance
The car wouldn’t tow (yes, in tow mode), so we had to close the highway and get the car lifted in the flatbed. The Police where just so cool about it, closed the highway, got my daughter and wife into their car, and took everything with a smile. The tow driver was just crazy experienced, and had the car lifted in no time.
The car is now at the service center, and they will have to take a look on Monday. *sugar* happens, and I had plenty of time to pull over on a good spot. Tesla roadside assistance where of no use.
Car is 3.5 months old and only with 5000 km, so let’s see. I guess it’s the drivetrain that is somehow broken"
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/thre...tobahn.272951/
and this from June:
"I've been seeing more reports of users having high pitched noises coming from the rear of their cars when cruising. I recently got a new 2022 Model Y LR and have found that the noise really picks up above 67mph and gets very loud and high pitched. It's honestly a bit painful especially on longer highway drives. My service center is saying that it's within spec, but it seems that the willingness to fix this issue varies by service center."
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/thre...n-2022.269749/
and
"The windshield washer on my 4 mo old Model Y has stopped working. Absolutely no fluid is being sprayed on the windshield. However a puddle does appear on the ground under the car.
I checked fluid levels - ok
I popped the shroud under the frunk but saw nothing wrong. any thoughts?"
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/thre...-works.239055/
From a couple weeks ago:
"I took delivery of my 22 Model Y Performance about three weeks ago. I've had a really rough go and find myself almost sick to my stomach when I think about how much I paid vs the quality of vehicle I got. Some of the challenges I've had are included below. As expected, it had some pretty horrendous paint defects on delivery (like 8-10 inch scratches), so I sent it out to get paint corrected and ceramic coated. This cleaned up like 90% of those defects which was great. After driving it for a few miles I found/heard lots of other issues. Among many other smaller issues, I noticed: the steering wheel has to be turned 4 or 5 degrees to the right for the car to go straight, the front left suspension has a metal-on-metal thunking sound with every bump, the front right suspension makes a pretty awful grinding noise when turning right, and several pieces of trim rattle (the primary offender being some deep, loud rattle by the windshield). The quality of trim is also disappointing with poorly fitting plastics everywhere and sweaty seat material. Also, for some reason the steering wheel feels tiny (?). Not necessarily an issue with my particular car, but it rides like a freight train. I feel every little bump in the road, and I'm sure this just accentuates the rattles I'm hearing. I fear that I got a car that was slapped together before the turn of the quarter - when the assembly line is rushed and cars are pushed out as fast as possible."
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/thre...rmance.273297/
also from a few weeks ago:
"Yesterday my car shut down in the freeway close to my home here in Switzerland (see picture below for a flying Model Y)
We had just entered the autobahn (freeway) and accelerated to 120 km/h (75 mph). After 20 seconds I got the error: “power reduced rear motor temporarily disabled”. After 5-10 seconds I completely lost power, and we couldn’t make it to the next exit and had to stop in the emergency lane.
We called Tesla immediately and after 10 minutes they concluded that we couldn’t do anything, and had to get towed. They “allegedly” called roadside assistance (TCS) in Switzerland, and after 25 minutes, after I had called them back 3 times, said that they couldn’t get in touch with roadside assistance, and that we had to call the police and ask them to get us out of there while leaving the car. WTF!!??
I called TCS myself, they picked up after 2 minutes and where there after 20. Embarrassing from Tesla Roadside assistance
The car wouldn’t tow (yes, in tow mode), so we had to close the highway and get the car lifted in the flatbed. The Police where just so cool about it, closed the highway, got my daughter and wife into their car, and took everything with a smile. The tow driver was just crazy experienced, and had the car lifted in no time.
The car is now at the service center, and they will have to take a look on Monday. *sugar* happens, and I had plenty of time to pull over on a good spot. Tesla roadside assistance where of no use.
Car is 3.5 months old and only with 5000 km, so let’s see. I guess it’s the drivetrain that is somehow broken"
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/thre...tobahn.272951/
and this from June:
"I've been seeing more reports of users having high pitched noises coming from the rear of their cars when cruising. I recently got a new 2022 Model Y LR and have found that the noise really picks up above 67mph and gets very loud and high pitched. It's honestly a bit painful especially on longer highway drives. My service center is saying that it's within spec, but it seems that the willingness to fix this issue varies by service center."
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/thre...n-2022.269749/
and
"The windshield washer on my 4 mo old Model Y has stopped working. Absolutely no fluid is being sprayed on the windshield. However a puddle does appear on the ground under the car.
I checked fluid levels - ok
I popped the shroud under the frunk but saw nothing wrong. any thoughts?"
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/thre...-works.239055/
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 5,308
Likes: 1,596
From: SE PA
I think that Tesla has a long way to go as far as building quality cars. There are so many complaints, fires, deadly accidents, and breakdowns that are dangerous on a hiway, I wouldn't take one if it was free. I'm at the age where I'll probably check out driving an internal combustion engine and I'm good with that... 
BTW, great post LS500...
BTW, great post LS500...
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 25,973
Likes: 4,300
From: Alberta
Instructor
Joined: Mar 2021
Posts: 887
Likes: 531
From: Alberta
I didn't even have to look too hard to find those. That was a quick 2 minute browse. I've owned two Teslas I know quality hasn't gotten better one bit! I bought in 2015 and again 2018 and still had ridiculous things break that don't break on normal cars (charge port door, steering column stalks, steering wheel button, headlight, front air struts, door handles, high voltage junction box, lower control arms, wiper nozzles, etc the list goes on). If you care the slightest about quality for the money, Tesla is bottom of the shopping list.
Until sales slow down for Tesla they have zero incentive to improve their quality. That's just the facts.
Until sales slow down for Tesla they have zero incentive to improve their quality. That's just the facts.
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 25,973
Likes: 4,300
From: Alberta
Instructor
Joined: Mar 2021
Posts: 887
Likes: 531
From: Alberta
I quoted from the largest Tesla forum on the planet, of which I've been a member since what 2014? I simply browsed the Model Y forum and picked some recent issues on 2022 models. JD Power and Consumer Reports rank Tesla quality either last or close to it.
Pole Position
Joined: May 2021
Posts: 2,544
Likes: 1,362
From: IL
I'll try. Consumer Reports' owner survey is the most reliable source of publicly available data for car reliability. Here are their overall reliability scores for the relevant models in the most recent years for which they have data:
Tesla Model 3: 2021, average
Tesla Model S, 2020: much worse than average
Tesla Model X, 2020: much worse than average
Tesla Model Y, 2021: worse than average
Lexus ES (all trims), 2021: better than average
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 25,973
Likes: 4,300
From: Alberta
I'll try. Consumer Reports' owner survey is the most reliable source of publicly available data for car reliability. Here are their overall reliability scores for the relevant models in the most recent years for which they have data:
Tesla Model 3: 2021, average
Tesla Model S, 2020: much worse than average
Tesla Model X, 2020: much worse than average
Tesla Model Y, 2021: worse than average
Lexus ES (all trims), 2021: better than average
Tesla Model 3: 2021, average
Tesla Model S, 2020: much worse than average
Tesla Model X, 2020: much worse than average
Tesla Model Y, 2021: worse than average
Lexus ES (all trims), 2021: better than average
