Hi,

I've just picked up my demo ES 300h (11,500 km on the clock) on Saturday and absolutely loving it!!

I do have an issue with the braking though.

I have driven the 250 and another 300h (4,500km on the clock) and the brakes in those cars seem absolutely perfect. I can brake and slow down at a nice smooth rate and come to a stop where you barely notice that you've stopped it's so smooth.

With my 300h that I've bought, the brakes are weird. What happens is the car starts slowing down and then it feels like the brakes release slightly and then when I press the brake down a little more it suddenly bites and I brake a lot more sharply. It's so difficult to slow down and stop smoothly. It's also difficult for me to move 50cm (20 inches) with a smooth release and a smooth stop. The brakes release pretty suddenly and then when i press down to stop again, after such a short distance, it bites down and i stop abruptly as opposed to a smooth slowdown and then stop.

Is this normal? Do you guys with hybrids also have this issue with the brakes? Does it take time to get used to and are they really that much different to the ES 250/350? Is there anything else it could be?

Thanks in advance,

Chris

 

I have only test driven a couple of the 2019 ES hybrids so bear in mind my experience is very limited, but getting a smooth stop in a hybrid takes some practice and good coordination. I read that Lexus has smoothed that out on this model, but my observation has been that it is pretty much the same as the last generation, which I currently own. My understanding is that this results from the coordination between the regenerative braking and the actual friction brakes which don’t engage until the very last moment (unless braking hard). I would suggest that you will get used to it with a little practice. I cannot explain why you didn’t experience this same idiosyncrasy from the other hybrids you are comparing, but I can confirm that I have a hard time getting a smooth stop in my 2015 as well as the 2019s I have taken on test drives.

 

The scary part about regen braking is that sometimes it feels like it's not enough, like when you're doing a hard stop from highway speeds. The car itself stops fine though.

There's a weird transition where I can feel the pedal going slightly soft - that's probably the point where the electric motors are done and the friction brakes are about to activate. The key is to press your foot down firmly and ignore whatever strange sensations are coming up the brake pedal. I've felt it in my 2014 car and when I tested a 2019 model.

 

I've had 2 Lexus Hybrids, and the brakes in both were difficult to use smoothly. My way of describing it is that they are not proportional. More pressure is supposed to give you more braking, less pressure is supposed to equal less braking. Except not with my Hybrids. I agree that it has to do with the regenerative braking that is controlled by the computer and based on demand. It's sort of like the'rs another brake pedal that someone else gets to use. You do get used to it, but it takes longer than normal.

 

The braking on hybrids is not that complicated. Light braking duty is done by reversing polarity on the motor generator (basically spinning the motor backwards) to capture energy into the traction battery, then when you need more stopping power, the car simply activates the friction brakes. So yes there's two forces working in conjunction to slow you down. Same as w/ an electric car. It's normal.

 

The issue, as mentioned above, is the transition from regeneration braking to friction braking. The friction braking on the hybrids still work just like the regular ICE cars. The confusion is that the hybrid also adds a level of braking effect from the electric motors switching to becoming generators. These generators absorb power thus slowing the car. As the car slows, the amount of power they can absorb decreases thus you get less stopping power from them and need more effort from the standard friction brakes. It does feel strange at first, but you can easily learn to compensate.