My dad is an ASE master tech that has owned a shop for over 30 years. He says that switching the sides of the tire is linked to broken belts in the tires. He says only rotate front to back straight line.

 

The other option is no rotation at all for FWD vehicles - then replace the fronts when they're shot - the rears will still have plenty of tread. You can then move the rears to the front to wear them out for the next time.

 

That might work if the rear multi link suspension is in good alignment and NOT near or at the allowable spec extremes for negative camber and toe in.
I do not know if the factory changed the 2024 ES350 rear alignment spec from previous years? Ex- my 2021 ES350 per the Lexus Hunter machine has a rather wide rear spec range of -0.4 to -1.9 degrees of Negative Camber (why such a way too negative extreme, maybe OK for the F sport?). If negative camber is too large that will promote in inner tire tread wear and rotation is the factory recommendation at 5K to get more tire life. I have noticed many 7th Gen relatively new ES350's out and about with very visible rear negative camber and the rears show it.

 

I've had no abnormal wear whatsoever. And I suspect this method is more economical unless you get free rotations. In fact, when I had the OEM tires on this car and was doing rotations religiously, those darn Michelins were toast anyway after about 30K miles.

 

negative camber doesn't really cause wear. it's negative camber PLUS toe that will be the issue.

of course on a car like the ES, negative camber is not really needed or advisable. but if you happen to have some, it's not the end of the world. usually non-adjustable anyway. just ensure the toe is zeroed out and your tires will last pretty much forever on a car like this.

former alignment tech! (many moons ago!)

 

Do you approve of my method? My Goodyears have been on the car now about 40 or 45K miles. The rears barely show any wear. The fronts still have plenty of tread as well but certainly more worn than the rears.

 

Yeah it's cool. no one NEEDS to rotate their tires. it's just so all tires are as consistent as possible throughout their life cycle. if it's easier to wear out the fronts then just replace them as needed then more power to you.

an unsafe car is an unsafe car and a safe car is a safe car. as long as you stay safe, then all good how you manage your wallet and tires

 

That's great on the Goodyears. Do you happen to have the last alignment settings in the rear and front?

 

Never had an alignment in six years of ownership.

 

Wow that is impressive still would like to know where it is set at
Thanks

 

Agreed, both too much rear neg camber & toe-in (as well as too much positive camber & toe-out) will not be good for the tires and will cause abnormal tire wear. But certainly even if the rear toe-in is set to the minimal spec and there is a lot of negative camber in just the uneven cross tread road contact patch will result in inner tire tread wear. This was definitely the case when we set up our trac cars with various negative camber values for cornering performance vs tread life which was very low at the track and what I experienced on non race cars.

Why does the Lexus Alignment dept insist on setting the rear toe-in at the middle of the spec range rather than at the low side? The Lexus Hunter machine suppled ES350 (on my 2021) Rear toe-in spec is + 0.02 to +0.18 degrees they set at 0.10 degrees in the middle spec, and the non adjustable rear negative camber spec is -0.4 to -1. 9 degrees and is at the high negative end. No accidents and only 22k on the OEM Bridgestone Turanza EL440 (not a fan of) with visible inner rear tread wear so I assume the neg camber was created at the factory design, manufacturer parts tolerances and maybe some minor suspension sag since manufactured 3/8//2021 and in service on 9/4/21?

The front alignment specs for my 2021 are much less aggressive of a range than the rear specs with Toe spec at -0.05 toe out to +0.12 toe in degrees and non adjustable camber spec at +0.4 to -1.2 degrees. Caster not discussed here.

So as you state neg camber on the ES is not needed or advisable so why did the designers put so much neg camber in this car with these rather large spec ranges? And then not make it adjustable? Maybe lots of vehicles come off the line on different runs thru the year and different plants and they probably will have lots of alignment variation within the spec ranges set in these non adjustable and the adjustable suspension parts? There is also parts manufacturer parts tolerance variation that contributes to this. Dealers do (supposed to do) as received alignment checks to correct the adjustable alignment parts.

Appreciate your comments
Pete

 

The techs don't really care. They just set whatever is adjustable in the middle which is fine for 99% of people. The techs just want to go to lunch. they're not sitting there thinking "I wonder if Sally wants added stability on her morning commutes?" Haha.

Negative camber is generally a trait in the rear of most cars to promote understeer and prevent oversteer -- in other words it's for safety.

Manufacturers typically don't put adjustable hardware for camber simply cause it costs money to add adjustable bolts and/or eccentric hardware when fixed hardware will do, and is not needed for 99% of people.

-0.10 degrees is actually perfect for high speed stability. -0.10 is actually what I spec on all four corners on my personal cars, if I can help it. if I go to a tech and I want custom toe, -0.10 is exactly what I ask for on all four corners. sort of an insider's secret. it'll wear a bit though. and not the best for a track car.

 

Yup. alignments aren't needed unless something (ball joint, locating bushing, or other bushing (trailing arm etc) is worn. Which at that point it's best to replace the part then get an alignment.

Or if you hit something and bend or break an arm.

alignments aren't part of regular maintenance. I've only ever gotten alignments when suspension work was done.

 

You have a point on the techs, but not all are that way.
Clarification: On Toe you prefer -0.10 degrees which is Toe- Out, and no + Toe -In, is that correct?
On the Camber you have no issue if it is at the large negative range which is -1.9 degrees but in spec?
Why is the rear camber spec range designed so wide at -0.4 to -1.9 degrees?
Certainly at -1.9 neg camber is very high for a family car.

Thanks

 

you'll have to ask Toyota why they spec things the way they did. i have no idea.