Doesn't make sense...You can make a V8 "emission compliant," but, people buy 4-bangers to save fuel. All engines are emission compliant these days.
Yes you can, but the smaller engines are more efficient, especially in CO2 emissions for global standards (it’s not just US standards that these are built for). Laden with turbos and better tech these smaller engines can produce more power than they ever have before, so they work well enough in heavier vehicles than in the past. There are lots of videos and articles about it. The Car Care Nut, a guy a lot of us watch, has spoken about it too.
I don’t necessarily believe people are buying them by choice, though, as you do not have a choice in many models any more. The makers are building them with fours and that’s all we get. I doin’t like 4’s, though I will grant they are hugely better than when I was young (a long time ago). Toyota, sadly, has lagged in the smoothness of their four bangers, which sound coarse and noisy under acceleration. although at cruise most people never notice the difference. That is another point to remember as well. Most consumers really don’t care what is under the hood, and a 4 gets them by “well enough”. Younger buyers in particular don’t even know the difference as they have no experience with the days of glorious V8 engines. It’s not unlike the debates about CVT’s. Auto enthusiast and the automotive media rage against them, their sound, their feel, their artificial nature - most consumer, on the other hand don’t notice, don’t care, and a large share couldn’t even tell what they have under hood anyway.
Yes you can, but the smaller engines are more efficient, especially in CO2 emissions for global standards (it’s not just US standards that these are built for). Laden with turbos and better tech these smaller engines can produce more power than they ever have before, so they work well enough in heavier vehicles than in the past. There are lots of videos and articles about it. The Car Care Nut, a guy a lot of us watch, has spoken about it too.
I don’t necessarily believe people are buying them by choice, though, as you do not have a choice in many models any more. The makers are building them with fours and that’s all we get. I doin’t like 4’s, though I will grant they are hugely better than when I was young (a long time ago). Toyota, sadly, has lagged in the smoothness of their four bangers, which sound coarse and noisy under acceleration. although at cruise most people never notice the difference. That is another point to remember as well. Most consumers really don’t care what is under the hood, and a 4 gets them by “well enough”. Younger buyers in particular don’t even know the difference as they have no experience with the days of glorious V8 engines. It’s not unlike the debates about CVT’s. Auto enthusiast and the automotive media rage against them, their sound, their feel, their artificial nature - most consumer, on the other hand don’t notice, don’t care, and a large share couldn’t even tell what they have under hood anyway.
I agree with your second paragraph, but not necessarily with the first.
MPG is efficiency, and thus, is related to emissions. If one burns less fuel generally, regardless of engine configuration, one will pollute less. If one put a modern V8 and a modern 4-banger on a dyno, ran 10 gallons of gas through each, and measured the CO2 and hydrocarbons emissions, I believe both would produce about the same amount of pollution. After all, both engines are subject to the same emissions standards. That said, in the real world, V8's are often in high performance sports cars, big-heavy flagship sedans, large trucks and SUV's, all which get lower MPG's due to usage, weight and aerodynamics. So, the best way for vehicles to pollute less would be to limit their weight and shape, and no politician will sponsor a law to limit these criteria as it would be political suicide!
Many owners of the new hybrid Tundras have reported gas mileage similar to the older V8 Tundras while towing. So at least while towing, the turbo 6 is no more efficient than the 8, and they're likely polluting the same amount. Generally, with all modern turbos, owners report better mileage only when babying it, but similar mileage when flogging it. So MPG's/efficiency and emissions have a lot to do with how we drive as well, which is even more difficult to legislate!
Gas, Octane, Fuel, Oil. All buzzwords that when made part of a forum thread, guys will flock in droves to grab at eachother's throats over in a multi-page thread.
Whether it's BMW, Daihatsu, Toyota, Kia. Never fails!
Gas, Octane, Fuel, Oil. All buzzwords that when made part of a forum thread, guys will flock in droves to grab at eachother's throats over in a multi-page thread.
I know what you're saying, but, "grab at each other's throats" is overstated. There is a lot of misunderstanding and partial understanding of these subjects, so, it stands to reason people are anxious to give their opposing opinions. This isn't a problem for most readers/posters, but if it is for you or anyone else, I suggest you move on without jumping in yourself unless you have something of interest to add.
Gas, Octane, Fuel, Oil. All buzzwords that when made part of a forum thread, guys will flock in droves to grab at eachother's throats over in a multi-page thread.
Whether it's BMW, Daihatsu, Toyota, Kia. Never fails!
For the some users, yes, that's the behavior no matter what forum brand. This is specially true on maintenance intervals or comparison between brands threads. Some users are simply fanatics, and others just think they are better knowledgeable than everyone else. Fortunately most users, so far at CL, keep things cordial and very informative (yourself included).
IMHO these threads will always help some users who are really interested in knowing the "about it" and the "why". I have read countless of those multi-page threads; and have learned a lot here and other forums. The important thing is to keep things cordial and provide the new users with facts so they can analyze and come to it's own personal conclusion.
Also, things get complicated when the brand sales representatives just don't know about usage and the engineering of it's own sale products; and give incorrect or misleading statements.
Fortunately most users, so far at CL, keep things cordial and very informative (yourself included).
I agree, and when things get out of control, the moderators do a good job intervening. No need for members to be reprimanding and guiding others as to what they should and shouldn't be discussing.
The sales pitch included a blurb about using only 87 Octane and I couldn't believe it... You don't coax 300 HP out of 213 Cubic inches without some extreme circumstances and I can't believe the knock sensors wouldn't pop off the engine if one used reguar...regularly...
. I picked up my new ES350 in January and to my dismay, the sales-bot tells me he thought it would be a nice gesture to fill the tank.... with regular. I nearly rapped him but had to be nice about it, since they still owned the car and I was about to hand him a check..... The first couple hundred miles were made with a very light touch on the pedal and as soon as the tank was half empty, it was filled with the highest octane I could find, along with a bottle of Techron... There were no issues with the regular fuel but it wasn't tested either and the only fuel used now, will be 93 octane..
Two days ago, we returned from a trip down the East coast and I was quite pleased seeing 75-80 MPH with the engine at 1700 RPM....... with the fuel economy showing 30.8 MPG. My previous car was an Infiniti M-35 and it never saw anything above 24.
The one thing I do miss is the engine sound. The ES is fairly well insulated and pressing the pedal with the only reference being the tachometer winding up, is not to my liking.
You should run some tanks on regular octane. I think you may be wasting your money. My acuran has a big difference in mileage between 87 and 93. Makes it worth paying more and it says in the manual to use 97 and I always do. But this car? It says 87 and I think it runs great and gets top mileage with it. One of the reasons I got this car over others.
I bought the ES350 specifically for the V6 and the 87 fuel min. That's all I use and it runs great, no knock, no miss, no hiccups, inside the car can't hear or feel the engine idling, decent mpg. I use top tier fuel presently Mobil stations are close by. Unless the engine is designed and tuned to run a higher octane gasoline it is not needed and the ES350 V6 2GR-FKS works on 87. The power delivered during an efficient combustion cycle from the fuel is directly related to the available energy per pound in the fuel, and gasoline regardless of octane rating has essentially the same BTU's/pound. Gasoline with an ethanol mix has lower BTU/pound than non ethanol gasoline, more Ethanol in the mix less BTU/pound. Why E85 tunes give more power is for another discussion. Higher Octane is required to deal with undesirable combustion (knock) before the spark occurs from excess high pressure and heat and has nothing to do with the energy content of the gasoline and more to do with the cost you pay/gal. If you are experiencing knock, poor running, etc probably (among other things) have excess carbon on the pistons, valves and combustion chamber..
All the cars I have had get an occasional Italian Tune Up when the road, traffic and radar permits 😄 🏎
80k miles later, it's only regular fuel I feed it. Engine still purrs like a kitten. I couldn't imagine wasting $$ on premium.
You shamed me into trying 87. 😂😂 I talked to my son in law - a former Lexus mechanic - and he told me that about the only thing premium would do is eliminate excessive carbon deposits. Top tier 87 doesn’t cause much buildup. I can drain a bottle of Techron into the tank once a month just to feel better. Besides, I don’t think I’ll be keeping this car long - plan to sell before the warranty expires.
You shamed me into trying 87. 😂😂 I talked to my son in law - a former Lexus mechanic - and he told me that about the only thing premium would do is eliminate excessive carbon deposits. Top tier 87 doesn’t cause much buildup. I can drain a bottle of Techron into the tank once a month just to feel better. Besides, I don’t think I’ll be keeping this car long - plan to sell before the warranty expires.
No shame - you do what you're most comfortable with!
