newyerker

Pretty extreme comparison, and nothing informational here, just thought i'd leave some of my overall, and biggest impressions for entertainment since going from that ancient volvo to this relatively new ES lol.

Cars being compared: 2015 ES300h w/ luxury package & 2002 Volvo S60 BASE.

Exterior: ES is beautiful. And it may be personal, but I still think that old volvo holds its own pretty darn well, especially for being literally over 15 years old. Old lexuses look very ugly imho. always trying to be all hip and trendy probably doesnt help it looking like a classic (except LS, which was always more on the conservative side). But I know this has a lot to do with personal pref.

Interior: Again, ES has a beautiful interior, but volvo just does something right (at least for my tastes) when it comes to the simplistic "Scandinavian" design. Maybe I just grew too used to it owning it for such a long time, but aside from it being old, I can definitely see a lot of the materials on the volvo are actually of equal if not higher quality than the lexus. I seriously HATE the chrome plated door grabs and infotainment control ***** etc. Couldn't believe lexus was using them chrome plated CRAP. Even this ancient volvo actually uses a very high quality rubber-ish buttons, dials, and an actual metal for door handles that is perfectly polished all around, that still looks perfect. This ES300h's chrome plated control **** already has multiple spots that cracked off. I'd be seriously pissed if the grab handle started to peel off as well. I think I see more plastic on the lexus than on the volvo. and the plastic is definitely of cheaper material on the lexus as well. The piano black plastic center section with the gear shifter? just horrendous. BUT....I do love that the ES is HUGE. I also tried its twin Avalon and for some reason, that car felt small as hell, but ES just feels, and IS big. well, especially comparing it to the tiny little S60 that my 4 yr old niece was even always complaining about in the back seat saying how small it was lol.

Seats: I do not have the UL on my ES so I don't know how comfy that is, but the old S60 seats are still WAY more comfortable than the non UL ES seats.

Sound: the 2002 volvo simply BLOWS the non ML ES audio OUT OF THE WATER. no comparison whatsoever, in virtually all aspects of the sound. And the Volvo sound is the standard stereo as well.

Ride comfort: Lexus def has an edge, but the S60 is just as smooth and soft, even after all these years. Seat comfort probably has some to do with it too. But when it comes to road noise, wind, etc, volvo cannot hold a candle, but what can you expect from a 15 yr old car..it was one of the quietest back in its days. Too old to be keeping them squeaking and cracking sounds down.

Fun fact, down where I live in Colorado (slight suburb of denver), I can almost confidently say (if that makes any sense) 90%++ or more of the cars I see around are cheaper cars than my my lexus. And rather than making me feel good, makes me feel as if I overspent. Maybe I'm just being overly self-conscious or maybe I'm just not that happy with the lexus as I thought I was?

Anyhow, I think this post just confirmed my love for the old volvo, that I still have LOL.
I did think about getting a newer S60 also, because I seriously love volvos after how good my S60's been to me, but just couldnt do it with how small that car is, when I need to be thinking about maybe starting a family, etc. Oh and the fact that new S60 is basically still the same car as my 2002 LOL. Crazy how rarely volvo updates its cars.
Maybe my next car would be an S90. Those things are beautiful, but heard that giant ipad things like the tesla's are just pain in the *** to deal with. By the time I can consider a new car though, I'm sure it won't be an issue.


BTW, I did purchase this certified used. Would the dealer do anything about the peeled off chrome plate on the control **** for the infotainment (maybe nav **** is better constructed, but this is for the non-nav dial)?
That's a piece I'm going to have to touch all the time and the part where the plate broke off (two areas actually) is all sticking out and its just not a pleasant feeling.

Freds430

IMO when you buy a luxury cars the minimum you should be getting for paying more money is reliability. Lexus has been #1 in reliability by J D Power for six years in a row. I am dumbfounded when someone buys a luxury car and than has to continue to pay more money to keep it running. In addition when you pay more money for a car, I guess the manufacturer assumes you will pay more for maintenance. Lexus is the third least to maintain behind it's cousin's the Toyota and Scion. The fact they get good overall reviews on looks, tech, safety and ride is a plus.

http://twocents.lifehacker.com/the-c...ver-1781639773

RXGS

iTrader: (2)

I agree with most of your points, especially the seats, but while the interior is elegantly designed, they are far from the solid Swedish brick that I for so long associated with the brand. I have a pretty extensive experience with Volvos ranging from old 960 wagons to brand new ones and all, with the exception of the newest ones, have interiors that just haven't held up all that well. Not to say Lexus Has, my GS has creaks and rattles that my old GS and ES never had despite twice the miles and significantly more miles.

My uncles 2012 S60 for example has great seats and an elegant the interior design, but the plastics just seem like they are going to break. His is a higher mileage 2012 with 83k miles, but he takes care of it. Also hasn't been the most reliable car that he has owned, but the dealer has done a good job of handling the problems and even gave him a loaner for 3 weeks while the part they needed was shipped in. That being said, my experience with new S90 was great, had it for close to a week and loved it, although for the price, it has to be great ha. The new SUV is another slam dunk, but my God, for a fully loaded one your in Range Rover territory.

That being said, I am a big Volvo fan and for the longest time tried to find a v8 awd S80 when I was looking for a car, I just wish the new ones were as reliable as the old bricks that you still see on the roads today.

newyerker

Yeah, I def think I lucked out with my S60 getting such an immaculate vehicle, especially considering that they were being manufactured under ford management at the time.
And a lot of it probably has to do with my S60 being a base with naturally aspirated engine, not a turbo. Rare to find those in recent volvos.

Hoping this Lexus treats me just as well.

RXGS

iTrader: (2)

I have several friends who had vovlos as first cars, and 4 cars later, have had nothing but volvos. It's just one of those companies that owners are extremely loyal to, so they must be doing something right

newyerker

haha yeah i know this is the lexus es forum and all and "my" brand new car is the ES, but i def see myself going back to volvo than another lexus down the road unless volvo just royally screws something up.
the volvo was and still is in certain ways just a better experience. i know some of these things are small, but guess thats what can make the difference sometimes.

like the peeling off plated chrome pieces from plastics. just something i consider completely unacceptable on a luxury brand. why i would never get a cadillac, my childhood friends' dad had a 2 yr old seville or a deville and the interior on that thing was literally disintegrating everywhere.

jollick

I believe you are the 1st on the ES forum to have the peeling chrome issue. I have never had that happen on any Lexus I have owned. I wonder if they were cleaned with some chemical that caused it. Hopefully the dealer will make good on it for you.

newyerker

that's interesting. prev owner abused the heck out of the car??

but certainly hope so, i do have to schedule a service for them to fix another issue that i had with the screen and dashtop separating (though somehow it is becoming less severe). i may be **** but cant stand these little things lol.
i had never mentioned the issue with the control k-*** (not sure why it is filtered), hopefully they can do something about it.

GES

I have 2013 ES 300h that I purchased new 4 and half years ago and put 58000 miles on it so far. I have to say I had no issues what so ever with this car. The interior has held up very well, the seats, dash, steering wheel, ...etc everything looks like new. no signs of wear. I drive this car every day, commute to work, errands, weekend trips. I drive in a lot of stop and go, accelerate, decelerate many times every day and the car drive like new. No issues mechanically or otherwise. some scratches and dents on the exterior but that is about it. The most expensive thing I spent on it so far is new tires. Even when I leave it parked when I am out of town for up to 2 weeks in the middle of freezing temperatures in the winter it always starts right up like it was parked for 10 minutes.
There is no way that **** would break or the chrome on it peels unless it was abused, or if something heavy dropped on it. Just my 2 cents.

newyerker

also definitely pleased with the car mechanically. aside from those peeled chromes and small gap between dash and screen, everything else looks pretty new too except the piano black center which looks like crap (hard to imagine your ES in this area is also looking new).
But that is very good to know, I'll def have to bring it up to the person at my dealer.

SW17LS

I have also never seen any peeling chrome plated plastic in any Lexus. Lexus does use real metal door handles, etc...you just need to move up to more expensive Lexus models. My LS has real metal door handles, real metal trim, etc. The ES is the entry level Lexus.

The piano black trim is all about care. If you are careful with it, it will always look great. If you aren't, you lay stuff on it, wipe it with dirty cloths, etc its going to look like hell. The wood console in my LS is no different. Nice things require care to remain nice. Vehicles that are more utilitarian, such as this Volvo, require less care to stay looking okay.

If I recall your ES is a particularly high mileage car for its age isn't it? Weren't there issues with misaligned bumpers, etc when you first got it? A better cared for lower mile example would be a different story.

Volvos are nice cars, the latest S90 and XC90 etc are seriously incredibly nice cars for the money, different than a Lexus, but no Volvo has ever appealed to me except for the latest S90/V90 and XC90. The killer for me with those would be the 4cyl power plants.

lesz

Yes, if you are not careful with the piano black, it can scratch very easily. When I had my 2013 ES, I did pick up a couple of scratches in the piano black on the console, but I found that, if I used a mildly abrasive polish, I was able to remove those scratches.

The polish that I used was the 3M Hand Glaze, which is the same product that I might use to remove light surface scratches or polishing swirls from the exterior paint. I'm guessing that Meguiar's Scratch X would also work well. Such products will not do anything for deep scratches, and I would not try using a more abrasive polish for fear of permanently dulling the finish, but for surface scratches, they will work well.

With regard to the finish on things like the door handles, I would guess that the previous owner of your car at some point applied some inappropriate product to them that caused the finish to deteriorate. With the 2013 ES, I saw no deterioration at all of those surfaces after 3 1/2 years of ownership, and I expect that the same thing will be true with my 2017 ES.

newyerker

I appreciate the input. What you said makes me think the previous owner got annoyed with the piano black and probably used a pretty abrasive polish which dulled the finish on the console, cuz come to think about it, that's what I am seeing. I might still want to try 3M hand glaze though. And for dulled finish on such surfaces, is there any way to make it look better at all? everywhere else look pretty neat and new but when i look in that area, the car looks older than my 2002 volvo.

I'm def having second thoughts on any CPOs after this experience lol. Saw another guy below that had misaligned bumper with a CPO, which I also had, and all these other issues. Just hoping dealers going to be ok with addressing some of these things, especially that peeled off chrome, and hope they dont blame it on me or anything cuz i did not mention it before.

lesz

If the finish has already been permanently dulled as a result of the previous owner using an abrasive product on it, I'm guessing that you are not going to be able to bring back the gloss; however, if it has already been damaged, trying to work the surface with a mildly abrasive polish, like the 3M Hand Glaze, isn't going to make it any worse. If it was mine, I'd try the Hand Glaze. After using the Hand Glaze, I might then apply a good quality non-abrasive wax on the surface.

Ssnva1

The Volvo T5 S60 was on the top of my list when buying my Lexus. I think it looks amazing on the outside. I test drove a 2014 and then drove the Lexus immediately after and fell in love. The size was the deciding factor. It's very roomy. Loved the Volvo though, and can see myself owning one.

Ps- I love my 05 Highlander the way you love your Volvo. So I kept it!! It's still classy looking and runs like a charm with 240,000 miles on it! Another reason I stayed loyal to Toyota (2 Camrys preciously)!