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I have a 2013 ES350 with 106k miles with NO tranny fluid change. I have been to 4 dealers (2 Lexus and 2 Toyota) in the central NC area. 3 of them said absolute NO to tranny fluid changes and 1 Toyota dealer (in Apex, NC) said YES you need to do it as soon as possible.
Basically, these dealers are either not confident or "too" confident on transmission fluid changes. It seems like a complete mess and causes more confusion for "car people." More so than Honda/Acura products which clearly states tranny fluid changes every 30k so it's simple.
I've decided not to change the fluid because nobody knows what the hell they are doing. My only anecdote is my dad's 2007 Lexus which is at 205k miles in heavy stop and go driving in NOVA/DC area and he never got the transmission fluid done.
I
I've decided not to change the fluid because nobody knows what the hell they are doing. My only anecdote is my dad's 2007 Lexus which is at 205k miles in heavy stop and go driving in NOVA/DC area and he never got the transmission fluid done.
Yes but you dad's Lex doesn't have 8 sp, the more speeds the more clutch material in the fluid.
[QUOTE= I've decided not to change the fluid because nobody knows what the hell they are doing. My only anecdote is my dad's 2007 Lexus which is at 205k miles in heavy stop and go driving in NOVA/DC area and he never got the transmission fluid done.
My father drives 2006 Avalon with 150K city miles, fluid never changed. It shifts harsh and choppy, but in this case if fluid was never changed it’s better to leave it alone.
My father drives 2006 Avalon with 150K city miles, fluid never changed. It shifts harsh and choppy, but in this case if fluid was never changed it’s better to leave it alone.
i completely disagree with that. It’s as if you believe the dirty oil is going to hold the transmission together. If there is any damage already done - it’s already done. I don’t imagine putting clean oil in there is going to damage it further.
If you’re worried about a sudden change in the transmission oil quality, you can just change just what’s in the pan (usually a fraction, just 1/3 of the total transmission oil) over a period of time.
Did a drain and fill on my 13 es300h last week at 90k miles and the first time it’s been done on the vehicle. Fluid on the left is the old and actually doesn’t look that bad (dark spots are old oil stains on the floor). Not that it was bad or noticeable before, but it is driving smoother now. Definitely more fluid feeling in acceleration.
Maybe you took that oil off the top. If you compared the last bit of oil in the pan, you will also have all sorts of bits and little chucks of the transmission mixed in there.
i completely disagree with that. It’s as if you believe the dirty oil is going to hold the transmission together. If there is any damage already done - it’s already done. I don’t imagine putting clean oil in there is going to damage it further.
If you’re worried about a sudden change in the transmission oil quality, you can just change just what’s in the pan (usually a fraction, just 1/3 of the total transmission oil) over a period of time.
If transmission is neglected and has sludge build up, the new fluid being detergent can dislodge the sludge that can clog up the channels/filter. If you want to change fluid in the neglected transmission, you have to do it over period of time like you said, but even that has some level of risk.
Maybe you took that oil off the top. If you compared the last bit of oil in the pan, you will also have all sorts of bits and little chucks of the transmission mixed in there.
Eh, anybody else getting that kind of stuff with their drain and fills? No pan on the hybrid btw. Here is a pic of what you’re working with on a Lexus hybrid transmission.
Did a drain and fill on my 13 es300h last week at 90k miles and the first time it’s been done on the vehicle. Fluid on the left is the old and actually doesn’t look that bad (dark spots are old oil stains on the floor). Not that it was bad or noticeable before, but it is driving smoother now. Definitely more fluid feeling in acceleration.
Can you please post an exact procedure for the 300h? I have one and would like to do this. Thanks..
Can you please post an exact procedure for the 300h? I have one and would like to do this. Thanks..
Here is a cut and paste from a rav 4 hybrid forum that was pretty much exactly what I did. Only difference was that I bought a 4 quart jug from amazon to measure exactly what was taken out. Also, when you remove the drain bolt, it’s gonna shoot out pretty far initially which is where the spill on the floor came from.
Tools I Used:
3/8 in socket 10 mm HEX socket Multi Use Transfer Pump from Harbor Freight Long Handled 1/2 in Ratchet 1//2 in socket to 3/8 in socket adapter 1/4 in socket Ratchet 1/4 in socket to 3/8 in socket adapter Cheater Pipe 4 Jack Stands Jack Large drain pan 6 quarts of Toyota WS fluid (Amazon has it in a 6 pack for about $50)
Like the above videos say you need to jack the car up off the ground on all four corners and make it level. The higher you can get it the easier the job will be. The front 'transmission' fluid is easy to change. There are two 10 mm plugs on the passenger side of the vehicle that face towards the passenger tire. One is down low on the transmission and the other is up high to the left of the lower plug. There is a downward facing 10 mm plug that is used to change the coolant in the power transfer case. Don't remove this plug. Using the long handled ratchet, the 1/2 in to 3/8 inch adapter, the large drain pan, and the 3/8 in socket 10 mm HEX socket remove the two 10 mm plugs starting with the high one first. If you remove the lower one first all the fluid will drain out and if you cannot remove the upper one you won't be able to refill the transmission. Remove the lower plug and drain all the fluid into a large drain pan. Four quarts should come out. In my case I was short a quart due to the leak. Put the lower plug back in and make sure the washer is still on the plug. Using the Harbor Freight Multi Use Transfer pump fill the transmission with 4 quarts of Toyota WS using the upper hole as the fill hole. Once fluid starts to spill out of the hole stop pumping as the transmission is full. Put the upper plug back in making sure the washer is still attached. Do not over-tighten the plugs as they seem easy to strip.
Here is a cut and paste from a rav 4 hybrid forum that was pretty much exactly what I did. Only difference was that I bought a 4 quart jug from amazon to measure exactly what was taken out. Also, when you remove the drain bolt, it’s gonna shoot out pretty far initially which is where the spill on the floor came from.
Tools I Used:
3/8 in socket 10 mm HEX socket Multi Use Transfer Pump from Harbor Freight Long Handled 1/2 in Ratchet 1//2 in socket to 3/8 in socket adapter 1/4 in socket Ratchet 1/4 in socket to 3/8 in socket adapter Cheater Pipe 4 Jack Stands Jack Large drain pan 6 quarts of Toyota WS fluid (Amazon has it in a 6 pack for about $50)
Like the above videos say you need to jack the car up off the ground on all four corners and make it level. The higher you can get it the easier the job will be. The front 'transmission' fluid is easy to change. There are two 10 mm plugs on the passenger side of the vehicle that face towards the passenger tire. One is down low on the transmission and the other is up high to the left of the lower plug. There is a downward facing 10 mm plug that is used to change the coolant in the power transfer case. Don't remove this plug. Using the long handled ratchet, the 1/2 in to 3/8 inch adapter, the large drain pan, and the 3/8 in socket 10 mm HEX socket remove the two 10 mm plugs starting with the high one first. If you remove the lower one first all the fluid will drain out and if you cannot remove the upper one you won't be able to refill the transmission. Remove the lower plug and drain all the fluid into a large drain pan. Four quarts should come out. In my case I was short a quart due to the leak. Put the lower plug back in and make sure the washer is still on the plug. Using the Harbor Freight Multi Use Transfer pump fill the transmission with 4 quarts of Toyota WS using the upper hole as the fill hole. Once fluid starts to spill out of the hole stop pumping as the transmission is full. Put the upper plug back in making sure the washer is still attached. Do not over-tighten the plugs as they seem easy to strip.
Drivers who have enough money to afford a Lexus should be able spare $20 extra to read the on-line factory repair manual instructions for correctly setting the fluid level of the 6 speed and hybrid CVT transmissions after draining and refilling: https://techinfo.snapon.com/TIS/Register.aspx
Regarding the debate on whether it makes sense to do a drain & fill of ATF, it seems that the arguments for the two sides are as follows (note: I'm excluding anecdotal evidence):
Arguments against doing an ATF change:
- It's not in Lexus's scheduled maintenance log
- Lexus dealers refuse to do it
Arguments for doing an ATF change:
- There's nothing unique about this transmission fluid (or transmission) that would result in the fluid not degrading over time
- The 60k scheduled maintenance for the 2013 Avalon - image below - (which has the same platform as the 2013 ES350) DOES reference transmission fluid changes if the vehicle is used for towing/heavy loads - which indicates that transmission fluid does degrade over time. It also helps to explain why the ES350 does not include transmission fluid as a maintenance item - the ES350's owner's manual states that towing is not advised at all (which means they don't need to provide maintenance guidelines for owners who tow).
It's possible that Lexus's distributor agreements with their dealers disallow preventative transmission fluid servicing - given the incentivization at dealers' service departments, I find it a bit hard to believe that Lexus dealers across the country are nearly unanimously refusing to perform this customer-requested service (be it a drain & fill or a flush) out of the goodness of their hearts.
It's not true that all dealers refuse to do an ATF full exchange, some do, mine does and has the machine to do the job as he has also machines for the antifreeze & brake fluid exchange. Some dealers, perhaps most of them, don't want to go through with the expense, but those dealers that care about maintenance, their customers and not their wallet do advise for a full ATF exchange around 55-60K miles. Today with luxury cars being leased by about 75% of the buyers with 3yr leases, maintenance doesn't even come into play, it's the 2nd and subsequent buyers that ought to be aware. I'm **** retentive about maintenance, I hate breakdowns and therefore maintain vehicles on a severe service schedule, but that's just me.
It's not true that all dealers refuse to do an ATF full exchange, some do, mine does and has the machine to do the job as he has also machines for the antifreeze & brake fluid exchange. Some dealers, perhaps most of them, don't want to go through with the expense, but those dealers that care about maintenance, their customers and not their wallet do advise for a full ATF exchange around 55-60K miles. Today with luxury cars being leased by about 75% of the buyers with 3yr leases, maintenance doesn't even come into play, it's the 2nd and subsequent buyers that ought to be aware. I'm **** retentive about maintenance, I hate breakdowns and therefore maintain vehicles on a severe service schedule, but that's just me.
You might be one of the first people on the 6th gen ES350 forums who've been able to find a Lexus dealer (not a Toyota dealer) that is willing to do a fluid exchange on a "sealed" transmission. Am not sure I follow what you're saying re: the dealer expense - dealers can always provide a quote that takes into account their costs and adds a markup (as with any business).
I agree 100% re: maintenance on a severe service schedule! Better safe than sorry.
01-15-20, 02:21 PM
