Does your ES have a lot of steering wheel vibration at idle?
01-15-18, 07:46 PM
#76
Lexus Fanatic
01-18-18, 03:17 PM
#77
I rest my case. Engine and steering in front wheel drive cars are connected. Impossible to have zero vibrations in this case. They may be imperceptible but not zero, and a slight resonance makes the situation intolerable. Hey SW, congrats on the new ride. Let's see some pics!
But now it is MUCH worse. Ive driven FWD, RWD, 4WD and AWD vehicles through my life and I can tell this is no longer "normal", especially for our Lexus.
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Dampfwalze (09-14-19)
01-18-18, 06:17 PM
#78
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Originally Posted by chrisexv6
You are correct you could expect a little more vibration in the steering wheel because of FWD, but I, and presumably others, are experiencing much more than that. SOMETHING is not right. As I mentioned before, there was some vibration in the wheel from new....nothing objectionable but I did mention it (of course, it was "normal" according to the dealer).
But now it is MUCH worse. Ive driven FWD, RWD, 4WD and AWD vehicles through my life and I can tell this is no longer "normal", especially for our Lexus.
But now it is MUCH worse. Ive driven FWD, RWD, 4WD and AWD vehicles through my life and I can tell this is no longer "normal", especially for our Lexus.
01-18-18, 08:14 PM
#79
Congratulations, Steve. It looks regal enough to take on a Bentley!
01-18-18, 08:31 PM
#80
You are correct you could expect a little more vibration in the steering wheel because of FWD, but I, and presumably others, are experiencing much more than that. SOMETHING is not right. As I mentioned before, there was some vibration in the wheel from new....nothing objectionable but I did mention it (of course, it was "normal" according to the dealer).
But now it is MUCH worse. Ive driven FWD, RWD, 4WD and AWD vehicles through my life and I can tell this is no longer "normal", especially for our Lexus.
But now it is MUCH worse. Ive driven FWD, RWD, 4WD and AWD vehicles through my life and I can tell this is no longer "normal", especially for our Lexus.
You have a resonance, my friend. Your engine and drivetrain mounted on engine mounts are nothing but a damped spring mass system. Assuming that the steering gear is not loose, the ONLY component which will have an impact on the amplitude of the vibration is the spring constant and damping of the engine mounts. The spring constant and damping coefficient can change slightly over time, and although none of the mounts would be 'broken' per se' the amplitude of the engine vibration could be slightly higher, or the frequency could shift lower. It would shift lower because slightly worn engine mounts would be just a little softer, reducing the spring constant. Lower spring constant would reduce the resonant frequency. If the resonance frequency gets close to the vibration frequency of the engine at idle amplitudes will rise and you will likely feel them. Assuming nothing else is broken outright, you have two choices. (1) Bump up the idle sufficiently so that the vibration goes away, or (2) replace engine mounts. Being the cheap engineer that I am, I would go with (1), unless the car is under warranty. In that case I would have a royal fit at Lexus and insist they change the mounts.
The iPhone has an accelerometer app. One thing you could do is to idle your car and tape an iPhone on to the engine and see the amplitude and frequency. Then get into another car which does not have the vibrations and do the same thing. If your amplitude is higher then it is the mounts. Then you threaten to sue Lexus with the data unless they change the mounts free of charge.
BTW I am not a car mechanic but I do have a PhD in mechanical engineering and worked in the area of diagnosing vibrations in large industrial systems for about 5 years of my career. Used to be quite good at it too. Seriously. I may know enough just to be dangerous.
The iPhone has an accelerometer app. One thing you could do is to idle your car and tape an iPhone on to the engine and see the amplitude and frequency. Then get into another car which does not have the vibrations and do the same thing. If your amplitude is higher then it is the mounts. Then you threaten to sue Lexus with the data unless they change the mounts free of charge.
BTW I am not a car mechanic but I do have a PhD in mechanical engineering and worked in the area of diagnosing vibrations in large industrial systems for about 5 years of my career. Used to be quite good at it too. Seriously. I may know enough just to be dangerous.
06-17-19, 02:59 PM
#81
My 2016 ES 350 has developed a vibration that is not only shaking the wheel but letting off a resonating engine minor roar. It aggravates me when stopped even with music as I can hear the constant resonating sound over the music most of the time. It seems to occur the most at 750 RPM. Holding the brake and giving more gas to go to higher RPM's make it worse. This occurs the worst when the AC is on and the car is in gear.
When not in gear or the AC is off, the vibration and sound drop considerably. When both AC off and out of gear, it's almost gone. The RPM drops to to 650-700 when that occurs (no vibration).
I had a package of flowers in the car today and could see the plastic wrap vibrating pretty hard with the AC on and in gear (I made sure there was no air blowing on the plastic wrap). I turned off AC and put in neutral and the plastic top of the wrapping almost stopped vibrating (and noise went away).
I'm going to take a shot with the dealer but am afraid I'll get the dreaded 'it's within operating specs' reply.
Oh, and car has 5,700 miles on it. Not sure when it started as wife put 3,000+ miles on road trips this summer and I don't recall it doing this before she went.
And as for the argument that this is a lower end Lexus, etc. I have a 15 year old Dodge Intrepid that runs baby smooth (2.7L V6). The previous Intrepid (1996 model) that I had before that was so smooth that I could not tell a difference between in and out of gear. The ES350, from what I can tell, has always been touted as a smooth, supremely quiet car and when I bought it, that was the case. The vibration and sound have now turned that opinion, at least until it's corrected (if possible).
When not in gear or the AC is off, the vibration and sound drop considerably. When both AC off and out of gear, it's almost gone. The RPM drops to to 650-700 when that occurs (no vibration).
I had a package of flowers in the car today and could see the plastic wrap vibrating pretty hard with the AC on and in gear (I made sure there was no air blowing on the plastic wrap). I turned off AC and put in neutral and the plastic top of the wrapping almost stopped vibrating (and noise went away).
I'm going to take a shot with the dealer but am afraid I'll get the dreaded 'it's within operating specs' reply.
Oh, and car has 5,700 miles on it. Not sure when it started as wife put 3,000+ miles on road trips this summer and I don't recall it doing this before she went.
And as for the argument that this is a lower end Lexus, etc. I have a 15 year old Dodge Intrepid that runs baby smooth (2.7L V6). The previous Intrepid (1996 model) that I had before that was so smooth that I could not tell a difference between in and out of gear. The ES350, from what I can tell, has always been touted as a smooth, supremely quiet car and when I bought it, that was the case. The vibration and sound have now turned that opinion, at least until it's corrected (if possible).
The car that I test drove for 4 hours is no longer the same car and it's far from the pursuit of perfection that Lexus claims. For this reason, I'm scratched Lexus and Toyota off the list as I cannot trust to spend my hard earned money on them at this point. My 16 year old Dodge Intrepid sounds better and that's saying something.
Take care all....
06-17-19, 05:05 PM
#82
...
The car that I test drove for 4 hours is no longer the same car and it's far from the pursuit of perfection that Lexus claims. For this reason, I'm scratched Lexus and Toyota off the list as I cannot trust to spend my hard earned money on them at this point. My 16 year old Dodge Intrepid sounds better and that's saying something.
Take care all....
The car that I test drove for 4 hours is no longer the same car and it's far from the pursuit of perfection that Lexus claims. For this reason, I'm scratched Lexus and Toyota off the list as I cannot trust to spend my hard earned money on them at this point. My 16 year old Dodge Intrepid sounds better and that's saying something.
Take care all....
You can exchange "vehicle" for a number of things. Significant other, job, house, etc... Enjoy your life!
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jollick (06-18-19)
06-28-19, 09:28 PM
#83
Sorry to bring up an old thread but this issue was never solved. I tried one more time only to have the same ole "it's normal" regurgitated to me by the service department as well as the new case manager. I was told that it's normal and nothing else I can do about it. Still resonates at idle mainly at 750 rpm while in gear at idle. The service department kept the car for 2 weeks (this month) but the tech admitted that he basically worked on it a day or so and there was no change. Said that a 2015 model was just as loud as mine so it's normal. The 2019 loaner ES350 purred like a cat (ran at 650 rpm at idle in gear if that matters). I'm done. Thanks to everyone here who has posted not only to help me but others as well.
The car that I test drove for 4 hours is no longer the same car and it's far from the pursuit of perfection that Lexus claims. For this reason, I'm scratched Lexus and Toyota off the list as I cannot trust to spend my hard earned money on them at this point. My 16 year old Dodge Intrepid sounds better and that's saying something.
Take care all....
The car that I test drove for 4 hours is no longer the same car and it's far from the pursuit of perfection that Lexus claims. For this reason, I'm scratched Lexus and Toyota off the list as I cannot trust to spend my hard earned money on them at this point. My 16 year old Dodge Intrepid sounds better and that's saying something.
Take care all....
To be honest, I'm not sure I have any energy or drive left for this. If I receive another 'it's normal', I'm calling everything off and quitting on the car and brand.
06-29-19, 07:23 AM
#84
Lexus Fanatic
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09-08-19, 11:23 PM
#85
Update: right before giving up (when the above was posted), I had sent a long email titled "2016 ES350 - The end of a dream...." to the media department at Lexus and asked them to forward it to any and all executives. I was not asking or wanting anything at that point, as I had truly given up. I just wanted them to know what goes on the real world. Today, I received a call from the "Executive Management at HQ". The person wanted me to stay with it and he was going to investigate this issue and issue further guidance. I don't know where this is going to go if anywhere but HQ is supposedly looking into it.
To be honest, I'm not sure I have any energy or drive left for this. If I receive another 'it's normal', I'm calling everything off and quitting on the car and brand.
To be honest, I'm not sure I have any energy or drive left for this. If I receive another 'it's normal', I'm calling everything off and quitting on the car and brand.
09-09-19, 01:22 AM
#86
Any updates? I am testing out a 2010 ES350 and it seems to have the same issue. Not quite as bad as yours (no sound resonance really) but enough vibration you can feel it in not only the steering, but your back and on the sides of the doors. I also drive other older ESs, Avalons, and such quite frequently, and it has nothing to do with standard v6 vibration thru the steering. The car rides good on the highway otherwise, but it generates a lot of pain in my back when it's constantly vibrating at every stop light. The idle is smooth. The vibrations do go away in neutral. Turning off the AC does reduce it quite a bit too but that's unacceptable in Texas.
I finally gave up and traded it. I understand that they can't fix it if they can't hear it and I'll admit that the car didn't do it during the period that they had it. It was OK in winter because of the cooler temperatures but I just couldn't stand summer stop and go driving with it. For the record, the car always vibrated (even during test with rep) and could be felt in the pedals, seat and wheel. It wasn't normal IMO but I could have lived with it. I just hated the resonating sound.
Good luck.
09-09-19, 07:18 AM
#87
Sorry for lack of update. I took it in (it was a 78 degree morning) and rode 20 miles with the factory rep. Because of the cooler day (of course), the car vibrated but because of reduced AC load, the resonance was not there. I left the car with them for the day and they concluded it was normal. When I picked it up, it was 90 degrees and it resonated badly the entire trip home at every stop.
I finally gave up and traded it. I understand that they can't fix it if they can't hear it and I'll admit that the car didn't do it during the period that they had it. It was OK in winter because of the cooler temperatures but I just couldn't stand summer stop and go driving with it. For the record, the car always vibrated (even during test with rep) and could be felt in the pedals, seat and wheel. It wasn't normal IMO but I could have lived with it. I just hated the resonating sound.
Good luck.
I finally gave up and traded it. I understand that they can't fix it if they can't hear it and I'll admit that the car didn't do it during the period that they had it. It was OK in winter because of the cooler temperatures but I just couldn't stand summer stop and go driving with it. For the record, the car always vibrated (even during test with rep) and could be felt in the pedals, seat and wheel. It wasn't normal IMO but I could have lived with it. I just hated the resonating sound.
Good luck.
09-09-19, 07:55 AM
#88
Sorry to hear that. Mine might be a little worse, the AC doesn't always have much of an impact. I'm still within the return window, so I think I might just cancel the purchase. The more I investigate it. I believe it to be the engine itself. The problem is the vibrations probably are still occurring while moving, just much harder to detect, but my back says otherwise. My mom's 2007 Highlander v6, which I have also driven in long distance trips feels a bit bouncier, but actually much easier on my back. I really wanted the quality ride I had in an '04 Avalon and '99 ES300 - both so smooth. So much for getting a new ES for a "better" ride.
09-09-19, 02:09 PM
#89
Pole Position
For the record, I had said that I was going to ditch the brand but my wife overrode me. Said she wanted another Lexus but I told her that I want a hybrid then. Not only did she say "Do it"...she upgraded the hybrid model that I chose from a base model to the luxury model (mainly because she liked Atomic Silver so much more than black). I'll have to say that so far, best car that I've had yet. 2019 ES300h Luxury....hope this one turns out better than the last. No noise at and vibration at idle because most of the time, the engine is off when stopped. Good luck.
09-09-19, 02:15 PM
#90
I called up a Lexus manager today that's usually very aware of the older models and issues. He explained it being the design, something to do with torque/clutch flare? Basically there's not enough slippage as you find with other brands that do not do this with a v6. Anything above 800rpms does almost eliminate the vibration. Also, it seems to start vibrating once it is warmed up, so I'm wondering if having the tranny fluid changed would help.