SW17LS

These tests are done by the same source, which provides some level of standardization.

But, I gotta say you're out here talking about how things "sound to your ear" when admittedly you've never driven a Tesla. I have driven a Tesla, its nowhere near as quiet on the road as any of these cars. I was surprised by how loud it is. When you're driving down the road the drivetrain sound is the least important, road noise and wind noise are a lot more important. Thats where the Tesla falls behind other luxury cars.

Thats the CVT, one of the many reasons I don't like Hybrids.

The engine on the 460 is a little louder at idle because of the direct injection, and the timing chain vs timing belt.

This is the best description IMHO.

chromedome

The Tesla and ES300h are very quiet at low speeds in electric drive, although the ES does have an annoying motor whine around 40 mph. The Tesla is mindbogglingly fast with all that electric torque; the ES doesn't come close, even with a full throttle takeoff in Sport mode. Then again, a top Model S is more than twice the price of an ES300h, so it's not a fair comparison.

I'd say the ES hybrid is a premium Prius whereas the Model S is a first attempt at a luxury electric car. Nothing wrong with both approaches.

grek30

Get the 300H, you won't regret it if you do.

Freds430

Tesla estimates that driving 15,000 miles per year will cost an extra $602 in electricity. They also state it in very important to get a once a year $600 service done. Total cost for a year would be $1,202. I also average 15,000 miles a year in driving. I average 40 mpg in a ES300h. Using $2.30 a gallon as an average, I would spend $862.50 on gas. Oil change are not needed in a Tesla and cost me in a year $90. Prorated brake fluid flush for a year would be $65 or $130 every two years Total cost for a year for me $1017.50. So in summary, Tesla's extra cost for one year of driving for me is $184.50. I can drive any distance I want and a Tesla with a 250 mile range I would have to stop, find a charging station, and recharge for an 1 1/2 hours. Model S over $100,000 and my brand new ES300h $42,000.


Tesla stock is up 1000% since it IPO. In this time, it has never come close to making money in any year. In the last four years it has lost over 2.6 billion. With their 260 cars of Model 3 in one quarter of production the 400,000th person on the waiting list will get theirs in 384 years. That might be okay however since Consumer Reports ranks them 25th out of 29 in reliability. Consumer Reports gave the Model X, their SUV, as having one of the lowest scores in reliability. They listed their ten dogs to avoid based on reliability and the Model X shows as #1. Lexus is #1 in reliability both with Consumer Reports and J D Power.

The purchasers of Tesla's are like your neighbor who had the be the first to buy a high definition TV for $3,000. The rest of us waited a year and had more choices with better reliability for $1,000. Wait until car manufacturers like Lexus, BMW etc not a tech manufacturer start with mass production of electric cars. Tesla will become the next Yugo!!!

SW17LS

Try $15,000 for the first HDTVs lol

zes

I am not rich enough to own a Tesla, but I have some issues with the concept:
1) At least the reviews show that the fit and finish quality is poor. Panel gaps are large and inconsistent. Lexus, on the other hand is known to have the tightest panel gaps and for its fit and finish. If Toyota / Lexus decide to build all electric cars they could beat Tesla hands down in quality and cost without any problems. It is very difficult to achieve high quality as we have seen and even venerable German makes struggle with it. Toyota knows how to do it and have more than enough cash at hand to start up a line tomorrow if they want to. At that point Tesla's differentiator is zero.
2) I went to the EIA website and found out how much gasoline the light duty (cars and trucks) use in the US. Then I converted that to equivalent electric power and compared that to the electric power that the US uses. It turns out that the US would have to increase its power production and distribution capacity by 1.5X to feed just the light duty fleet! How likely is that? I don't see the cost driver for that to happen, unless batteries get 100X cheaper. So I do not think we will have more than 5-10% electrification.
3) Teslas and other electrics have a 10 years battery warranty. After that if the battery dies will anybody willing to spend $10,000 to put a new battery in a 10 year old car? How many of us have kept cars to 15 years in our past? I think this will be a problem when many electrics get to zero value with blown batteries after 10 years.

Somehow it is difficult to drink the electrification Kool Aid.

SW17LS

You’re applying “car” thinking to Tesla, which doesn’t work. People who buy Teslas buy them for the technology, the statement, they’re not thinking about keeping them 10 years, and they certainly don’t buy a six figure Tesla to save money.

zes

SW17LS

Its a market niche, but its not that small. Teslas sell very well.

Amazon didn't make a profit for many, many years either. Its not about making a profit at certain points.

chromedome

And Tesla owners border on the fanatical when it comes to love for the product. I totally understand - the Model S and Model X are marvels of engineering that go like stink while being almost completely silent. My wallet's too small for either and I don't have charging infra in this neck of the woods, but I would definitely consider a Model S as an upgrade in the future. Teslas are a tech geek's wet dream, to put it mildly...

mcomer

Recent trend in Luxury cars such as our GS350 F-Sport and NX200t F-Sport and select BMW's
is to build the car to be quiet and then deliver an adjustable amount of sporty engine noise back into
the interior! Anyone old enough to remember flipping the air cleaner top plate upside down to
increase the induction sound of the family truckster? In some cases it is not even the actual sound
of the engine, BMW apparently uses a synthesized V8 sound track...in its 6 cylinder car.

Separate thread bounce, I personally like the CVT. While the transmission itself is not lower
friction or more efficient than a conventional automatic it does increase the efficiency of all IC
engines because they are designed with a limited RPM power band. A jet airplane pilot does not
rev the engines up and down during take off, right? Sets an efficient power output level and leaves
it there until you are at cruising speed. It's humorous to drive a Nissan with the CVT that deliberately
"fakes" multi-step transmission bumps to seem sporty.