Why ES 350 over ES 300h?
08-15-13, 07:24 AM
#17
Lexus Champion
The article didn't say. My guess is that they use the same procedure on each auto trans car they test, but who knows. The 1.5 second difference is greater than I would have thought.
08-15-13, 07:51 AM
#18
Lexus Fanatic
Yeah the mode will not affect the 0-60 time or acceleration performance, it just changes the way the acceleration curve feels. Hybrids have a lot of low end torque since torque from an electric motor is high, and the CVT makes use of it at 100% at 1RPM. So you get that feel of pull off the line, but the engine has significantly less power than the 350, its going to be slower.
As for resale, it depends a lot on the situation. We paid $26k for our Prius in 2004, in 2011 I traded it to Carmax for $11k which I thought was pretty damn good, 42% TRADE IN after 6 years and 80k miles. That was at a gas price height though, and people were snapping up hybrids. Carmax turned around and listed it for $16k which I knew was crazy and it just sat there. I think they wound up selling it for $13k...looking around and private sales I probably could have gotten $12k.
If you catch the right opportunity to sell it when people are crazy for Hybrids you can do well, but I think overall people are weary of hybrids, and I think technology in that area is improving so quickly 5 years from now the ESh will be really outdated technology.
As for resale, it depends a lot on the situation. We paid $26k for our Prius in 2004, in 2011 I traded it to Carmax for $11k which I thought was pretty damn good, 42% TRADE IN after 6 years and 80k miles. That was at a gas price height though, and people were snapping up hybrids. Carmax turned around and listed it for $16k which I knew was crazy and it just sat there. I think they wound up selling it for $13k...looking around and private sales I probably could have gotten $12k.
If you catch the right opportunity to sell it when people are crazy for Hybrids you can do well, but I think overall people are weary of hybrids, and I think technology in that area is improving so quickly 5 years from now the ESh will be really outdated technology.
08-15-13, 09:22 AM
#20
Lexus Fanatic
08-15-13, 11:59 AM
#21
08-15-13, 01:18 PM
#22
Lexus Fanatic
That's a pretty good reason! The lease worked out so I'm only paying about $50 more a month for the GS. Easier to swallow than $15k.
08-15-13, 05:03 PM
#23
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Location: Fresno, CA
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Since I travel long distance so much, the main reason for me to go with the ES350 is because my rpm is only around 2k when cruising 75-80mph on the highway. Also, when I visit my parents in Los Angeles, I climb about 4400 ft over the hill, so having the extra hp helps. Low rpm provides a comfortable drive with very little noise.
08-16-13, 09:24 AM
#24
Lexus Champion
I understand why you'd need a V6 for your area, especially driving up the Grapevine. When I take the GS400 with a V8, the power is very smooth, hill or not. And my FE from SF to LA can be up to 25 mpg, if I set to cruise at 70. I'm not so sure what the FE or how the engine will run on my 300h would be, especially going up that grade.
08-16-13, 04:12 PM
#25
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08-16-13, 05:26 PM
#26
Lexus Champion
Definitely not as smooth as my V8 GS and a bit rougher than V6 RX. The FE is better than either, but both are heavier and thirstier vehicles.
08-18-13, 05:47 PM
#27
For us, it would not have been cost effective. We do short term leases every two years. The lease terms on the 350 were more attractive leaving the 300h more costly to lease. When I crunched the numbers, the difference in fuel economy did not overcome the less costly lease of the 350. At the end of this lease, we will take a look at how the 300 has performed, and if we decide to purchase or if the lease terms are better, we could go that route. I have noticed that some 300 owners are reporting that they are not getting the fuel economy they expected. My wife says she's getting around 24 around town in her ES, which is a bit of an improvement over the IS250 she had as her prior car. We're pleased with that.
Bill G
Bill G
08-19-13, 03:13 AM
#28
Driver School Candidate
I have the ES350, but my car has been with the dealer for the last three days and I got the 300H as a loaner car. I noticed 2 big differences in the 300h that I did not like.
1. When starting out from a stand still I could notice a slight shudder feeling when the gas engine kicked in. I was accelerating normally, not aggressively.
2.Braking is harsher with the regeneration it provides to the battery packs. It also makes a whirly noise when braking.
In general I am not totally sold on hybrids yet. I do not like the idea of driving around sitting on the huge battery packs. In a severe accident emergency crews have to know where they can cut with the jaws of life when rescuing the occupants. Every hybrid is different so now time is wasted as they have to find out where they can cut without hitting a high voltage line.
Also, I am not sure how much of an environmental offset there is with having to dispose the batteries when replaced many years down the road. I doubt I would own the car then, but in general there is an offset to the green factor when dealing with the battery replacement and when the car is eventually sent to the scrap yard.
1. When starting out from a stand still I could notice a slight shudder feeling when the gas engine kicked in. I was accelerating normally, not aggressively.
2.Braking is harsher with the regeneration it provides to the battery packs. It also makes a whirly noise when braking.
In general I am not totally sold on hybrids yet. I do not like the idea of driving around sitting on the huge battery packs. In a severe accident emergency crews have to know where they can cut with the jaws of life when rescuing the occupants. Every hybrid is different so now time is wasted as they have to find out where they can cut without hitting a high voltage line.
Also, I am not sure how much of an environmental offset there is with having to dispose the batteries when replaced many years down the road. I doubt I would own the car then, but in general there is an offset to the green factor when dealing with the battery replacement and when the car is eventually sent to the scrap yard.
08-19-13, 09:41 AM
#29
Lexus Champion
You have some valid concerns. If they bother you, then the hybrid is not for you, but they don't bother me.
I see in another thread that you're having battery problems on your ES, so I see why the hybrid batteries may bother you. The hybrid system in the Lexus is the same as in the Toyota, and they've been proven to be very reliable, with hybrid batteries lasting more than 100K, in some cases up to 300k (in taxis). Prices of the hybrid batteries have also dropped substantially based on new technology, production and reliability of the system.
I see in another thread that you're having battery problems on your ES, so I see why the hybrid batteries may bother you. The hybrid system in the Lexus is the same as in the Toyota, and they've been proven to be very reliable, with hybrid batteries lasting more than 100K, in some cases up to 300k (in taxis). Prices of the hybrid batteries have also dropped substantially based on new technology, production and reliability of the system.
08-19-13, 12:35 PM
#30
Driver School Candidate
I understand why you'd need a V6 for your area, especially driving up the Grapevine. When I take the GS400 with a V8, the power is very smooth, hill or not. And my FE from SF to LA can be up to 25 mpg, if I set to cruise at 70. I'm not so sure what the FE or how the engine will run on my 300h would be, especially going up that grade.
Used cruise control whenever possible, set at 75 mph. Measured fuel consumption each way with a fill up at beginning and end of trip. Fuel economy was 42.1 mpg on the northbound trip and 42.6 on the southbound trip. (These are real fuel measurements from my phone app, NOT the Lexus display (which was about 1 mpg higher). Trip was a little under 900 miles.
Those who have done this trip know with the exception of the climb over the Grapevine and another series of hills on 580/880 coming into the Bay area, the trip is fairly flat, so I believe its a good measure of FE.
