Sonnie, do you have the ML radio?

 

My mistake. It looked like the ML was an individual option and not part of a package. I just took it off the Lexus site: http://www.lexus.com/models/ES/features/options/

2013 ES / FEATURES

OPTIONS & PACKAGES

INDIVIDUAL OPTIONS

Mark Levinson® Premium Surround Sound Audio System[*] with 15 speakers and 835 watts @ less than 0.1% THD, 20–20,000 Hz[*]
$3,745[*]

Nice to know the actual ML option is less than $1K.

 

Hi Elliot... Yes, we have the ML system. It came with the UL package.

I looked closer at the sub today, could not see much due to the metal cover on the bottom, but it looks to be a shallow mount 8".

 

I have a 2013 Lexus ES300h, as soon as I listened to the sub for the first time there was a bottoming out and distortion. I gave it a week to see if it needed to be broken in and I still had the problem. The first time I went to my dealer they acknowledged my problem, and ordered a new sub. The second time I went to the dealer was when the subwoofer came in, I sat in the lobby as I waited for my service. About an hour later they told me they received information from Lexus telling them not to install the subwoofer because the amp is the problem. The third time I went to the dealer was to install the new amp, I was so happy thinking the problem was solved but no, I had the exact same issue. So I went to the dealer a FOURTH time today, the audio guy and the diagnostics guy both sat down with me and listened to it and they both acknowledged there is something wrong with it, and all the ES ML systems they have on the lot. We had a conversation and they told me, " No offense, but the ES ML sounds like crap, the one in the RX, GS, and LS all sound way better, even the standard Lexus one sounds better". I agreed because I own a 2013 RX and a 2006 RX which are 335 watts instead of the 835 ,and both ML systems in there sound way better.. They told me they could put in a new sub today but we both knew it wouldn't solve the problem. What they are doing now is calling Lexus, and making a case to corporate, they said I will receive a call soon to let me know what solution will arise. I buy Lexus and only Lexus so I don't ever have to go to the dealer. With this ES I've been there 4 times in the last month and a half I've owned the car and its really frustrating. Does anybody know if this situation could apply to some sort of lemon law, I've never been so disappointed with

 

I am doubting the lemon law would apply to this, but it might be worth checking into, if you wanna give up a nice car due to a sub issue.

Maybe your situation will be the one that gets us all a fix. Please keep us updated.

Who is your dealer?

 

Maybe I got lucky, but my ML audio does not have the sub issue I'm reading about here. Granted, I've only had it a few days. Is this something that shows up with time?

If I play a CD, the bass sounds very tight and clear at even high volume levels. XM, OTOH, sounds muddied as expected. Can't expect much from 39kbit/s.

 

Mike, the issue is less prevalent with DVDs. I listen primarily to XM - there are only certain stations on XM where I typically hear the distortion. For example, listening on Channel 2 with the volume at 40 to 45 or higher and the bass at full will often (but not always) exhibit distortion - it really depends on the song.

I happen to be very happy overall with the system - There are some songs that I really like to crank up the volume and on those, when distortion is present, it is obviously quite disappointing. But adjusting/lowering the bass level always corrects the issue.

 

On a quality amp, with quality listening material and average full range speakers, you should never have to adjust any setting in such a way. That said, the weakest piece in your example is the super compressed XM signal. I can easily see how anyone could damage a sub by doing what you stated. I can barely listen to it at any level above 30.

 

AT a volume level of 30 you will never have a distortion issue.

 

Just for the record... I listen to Sirius and XM quite frequently in our various vehicles. I have never had any issues with bass in any other vehicle other than our new ES. A good amp and a good subwoofer can easily handle compressed music. The amp may be a pretty decent amp in the ES, but the speakers are not high quality by any means... they are mediocre at best, and the subwoofer is not designed for very heavy bass, although it may handle some frequencies well... mostly those above about 50Hz. You start feeding it a 30-40Hz signal at very loud volumes and it is not going to be able to handle it because it is not designed to handle it. Simply put, it was a poor choice of subs for this system. The entire speaker system was not designed and chosen very well, although I would not doubt there will be some who will be happy with it.

 

Sonnie, do you have problems with frequencies below 50Hz with sources other than XM? If so, was this always the case? The XM in my ES sounds so bad, I'm thinking of not continuing it past the trial period. I've been a subscriber for almost 10 years, so I know it can sound reasonable in other vehicles. Just not in the ES with the ML audio system.

I read this thread before I bought my ES, so I brought a reference CD with me on my test drive. I wanted to make sure it was worth the cost and the sub wasn't defective. It totally blew me away. There was absolutely no distortion at any volume level. Even Bluetooth streaming my 256k Google Play library sounds awesome. If there truly is a defect with some of the ML's out there, I hope a solution is found quickly and those with the issue can start enjoying what they paid for.

 

I wonder what would make XM in the Lexus ML system sound any different than in another system?

In most cases of compressed music distortion, I notice it more in the higher frequencies than the lower. It also varies with the channel and what music is playing.

Keep in mind that I am comparing this to my aftermarket system in my 2010 Ford F150 Platinum. I suspect this system probably cost about the same as the Lexus system when adding the additional cost of the ML upgrade... maybe a couple hundred more, although I got some really good bargains on what I purchased for my Platinum. You can see the details of that system here.

When I hear the name Mark Levinson, I think "high-end" and "high quality". I think I should be hearing some of the best. At least that is what I would expect if I was the CEO of Mark Levinson and having my high-end name associated with this system. Put the names Lexus with ML together and it should be the epitome of luxury sound.

I listened to Phil Collins track 1 of the Hello, I Must Be Going CD (24KT + Gold) I Don't Care Anymore ... it sounded pretty good up until about 45-47, when the bass starts to distort.

I listened to several tracks of Yello's One Second (Remastered Series 5). Call It Love has some low bass and the best I could do there was 42-43 before it started to bottom out. I was able to get up to 45-50 on a few tracks, but when they hit some of the lower notes, the sub bottomed.

On James Newton Howard & Friends (Sheffield Gold)... I could really crank it up and it sounded pretty good, but there is hardly any low bass on this music. I noticed more a lack of mid-bass with this disc.

For the most part, the highs sounded okay on this music... maybe a little tinny at times... and certainly not anywhere remotely close to the system in my Platinum. There is somewhat a lack of bass and mid-bass in the ML system. I am missing the fullness of the sound, especially when driving.

Sitting in the car and listening is one thing... still not quite what I like, but better than when driving, which yields significantly different results. When driving I need more bass than the ML system can offer. I need to crank the bass up a little and when I do this, it limits the volume level. Where I might get 40-45 out of some of the music, now I am limited to 35-40. Granted in most cases this is sufficient, but occasionally I like to crank it up and listen to some Pink Floyd. My wife likes old school mix stuff, and that certainly causes some issues if she cranks it up like she likes it while driving

I don't know... I think maybe Lexus skimped on the speakers. As stated earlier, being owned by Harman, they could have used JBL speakers and done much better. None the less, I realize we did not buy the car for the ML system, it just happen to come with the UL package. Yet, I still expect better than this.

 

I finally got a call back from the mark levinson customer service guy.

This is what he said.

3months ago they got the official notice about the distortion in the 2013 ES350 sub. They were given a sample track from an ownee. Harman(ML manufacturer) reproduced the distortion. "The speaker is not bottoming out." He said.
The tech's modified the power settings and eliminated the distortion. Lexus approved the fix and as of three weeks ago the new amp is available.

I told this guy that some people on this site had their amps replaced and the distortion was not eliminated. His response is, they must had had the old amp version replaced instead of the new version because that should not be. He said they used an ES350 and made sure it was fixed.

I said, "so I should be able to crank the system at near full bass and high volume without distortion."

This guy said "yes"

I also asked about the speakers. I was told that they were made by someone else. He said this is not true, Harman manufactures every speaker in the lexus vehicles with the Mark Levinson system. He said the subwoofer in the 2013 ES 350 is more than adiquate for all music types. An aftermarket sub is not required.

So in my previous post I said the speakers are premium audio not ML. I was given fails info. Sorry guys. They are indeed ML made by the parent company, Harman. Sorry for the bad info, I know that pissed off a few.

Second, there isn't a TSIB For this issue, the field technician is the one with this knowledge and this person will authorize your dealer to order the new amp.

Third, the issue is not with the gain. The issue was the power delivery to the sub. Either there was too much, or not enough, I don't know and the guy I spoke to wasn't a tech so he didn't know. But the issue was in the power and it was resolved.

So I called my dealer today and they are going to order a new amp so it should be here tomorrow or Wednesday, I'm keeping my fingers crossed on this one b/c after this I will have to file a complaint to corporate and go the long route. Then I will call back Harman and hope they can do the right thing and fix this %€¥#.

I'll let you know if anything was resolved later.

 

The sub is definitely bottoming out on mine. Since he is not a tech guy, he may not understand what that means. It is also not ever going to be adequate for all types of music fully cranked. I am not aware of an 8" shallow mount sub made that would be adequate. Too much or not enough power is related to gain... and it is going to be too much gain from the amp to the sub. You can cut it down, which should help with distortion, but it is also going to reduce the amount of bass to the sub, which will require adding bass via the controls, which is probably centered around 100Hz.

I don't know about the sub because I could not find any label on it, but the front dash speakers are stamped with an ML label, although I did not realize ML was a foreign made product.











I will probably do what I suspected we would end up having to do before we purchased the car, add a better aftermarket sub and maybe an JBL MS-8 processor. I listened intently again today and I think a lot of the problem I am hearing with the mids and highs is due to unlevel matched speakers up front. All I could hear were the 3.5" dash speakers... and they were harsh to my ears... sometimes tinny, as previously mentioned. Possibly replacing those with some really good quality 3.5 " coaxial speakers with a soft dome tweeter would help. I am thinking Hertz Hi-Energy.

 

Is this issue present regardless of the Auto Sound Leveling or Surround settings on the receiver?