wanderer99

I've been thinking where to post this question to you all, and this seems a likely place. It relates to the ES, but also all new cars in general, so I'll just throw it out there for you all to comment on. What got me thinking about this was posts from 1seeker1 and Kingofire.

Q1: Is it OK for Lexus to knowingly sell a new vehicle that may have a known mechanical fault that may or may not be able to be repaired?

Q2: If the answer is Yes, how does that relate to the stated goal of the Pursuit of Perfection?

I am not bashing here - this just seems at odds with itself and I can't work it out

Patric

That stated goal may have been superceded by the "Relentless Pursuit of Money".

Pat

dreyfus

Q1: Sure it is. Cars are complex and like many other complex products (think software, for example) are built using compromise and having to meet design and manufacturing deadlines. Going to market with known bugs is not only common it is inevitable. One of the measures of a good car company is the number and level of issues that are "acceptable" for relase.

Nothing in a car is unrepairable. It may take a complete redesign of the offending part(s) and a ton of money, but everything can be fixed.

Q2: Pursuit of Perfection is just that, a pursuit, not a guarantee. Lexus comes closer than most (at least so far as reliability is concerned), but no car is ever perfect.

LexFather

Its called numbers. Unhappy people are move vocal. Unhappy people will search the internet to find solutions. Lexus is still not really an enthusiast brand, even though Clublexus may seem huge. Lexus has sold over 4 million cars. We are what, 40,000 and that is NOT 40,000 active members.
So Clublexus with just registered members is less than 1% of all Lexus owners. And a registered person here may not even own a Lexus!

For the most part people are happy with their Lexus. Lexus has NEVER had a 0 rating for problems. They have never sold a perfectly built car.

sdbrandon makes great point. They still are less than the competiton. And thanks to Lexus, the competiton is paying attention and trying to sell a better quality car.

If Lexus was truly selling a poorer quality car than advertised, it would catch up with them quickly. There are TONS of people that cannot WAIT for the LEXUS downfall. They cannot WAIT for Lexus to score #2 or #3.

Nextourer

Reminds me of a hilarious statement made by a MB representative.

When asked about the recent reliability problems on the S-Class (not the new 07, the previous generation), he replied stating that because MB is leading the pack with the latest technologies, we expect some of them to have issues and bugs. That's the price we pay for being ahead.

Then I take a look at the LS430 and think.. well doesn't that have some features too and it doesn't seem to affect its reliability. Heck, let's see how this new LS460 does. It's chocked full of new technology. If it comes out with minimal issues, then it'll be a slap to MB's face.

I realise electronics can be problematic (and to be honest, I have no idea what issues the recent MBs have.. be it electrical, mechanical or what have you) but I don't think blaming it on technology is the way to go.

ES350Bob

Take Lexus out of your question as your question really could pertain to any manufacturer selling products to consumers where the product is stated or implied to be in a ready for use state at purchase....substitute any manufacturer.......I can think of no ethical reason any manufacturer would knowingly submit products to consumers with defects without disclosing known defects prior to consumer decision to purchase. The question of any manufacturer is was it known, and if so, was it disclosed prior to consumer decision to purchase.

garsarno

In my recollection on previous and current Lincoln autos, I have had transmission problems:

99 Town Car - within the first 10,000 miles under warranty, a new torque converter
04 Mercury Mountaineer - under warranty, there was a rebuild as the reverse gear would shudder
04 Lincoln LS - numerous reflashes of the transmission memory back to spec

I think the problem is that I expected no problems from Lexus and the whole experience (dealer) has been sub par. I still enjoy our ES350, the new transmission doing it's thing without a hiccup.

sdbrandon

Does the LS really have new technology? Not trying to be dumb here but I know for fact some of the technology has been around for years in Japan (i.e. self parking). Although the LS 460 is new to the U.S. my impression is that the technology is several years old which contributes to Lexus' reliability.