reliability
Pole Position
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 2,906
Likes: 845
From: Idaho
Agree with GES but might add a hybrid also has less wear on the brakes due to regenerative braking. Those sorts of savings combined with gas savings will unlikely ever compensate for that ultimate battery replacement though. There are other things we like about hybrids, their smoother (no shift points) acceleration and they are quieter. They definitely aren't for everyone so if you are looking be sure to take plenty of test drives and evaluate carefully if you are considering one. Due to their higher cost and that ultimate battery replacement, you really shouldn't assume they will be cheaper if you plan to keep them for more than 8 years or so.
Also, I might argue that due to their more-complex dual power train, they may not be quite as reliable as a standard ES 350. There are simply more moving parts, which suggests more potential failure points. Having said that, we are on our fourth hybrid (two Toyotas and two Lexus with about 120k combined miles) and we have never had an issue with the hybrid drivetrain.
Also, I might argue that due to their more-complex dual power train, they may not be quite as reliable as a standard ES 350. There are simply more moving parts, which suggests more potential failure points. Having said that, we are on our fourth hybrid (two Toyotas and two Lexus with about 120k combined miles) and we have never had an issue with the hybrid drivetrain.
Advanced
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 640
Likes: 94
From: Colorado
I would say that the hybrid has fewer moving parts. The CVT is very simple compared to a ES 350 auto transmission. And like mentioned before, it has no alternator, starter, belts etc. or friction surfaces such as clutches. It does have a hybrid battery though, which is a risk. The hybrid battery is the older, more proven Ni based design, and not the higher performance Li design used in many other cars. In my opinion Li based batteries have not been proven over 10 years of use in automotive applications but the Ni based battery has been in Priuses and Camrys. Also, unlike all electric cars, the hybrid battery is never discharged or charged completely, which I understand extends life.
I must use admit that I sometimes get irritated with the hybrid drive during spirited driving on the highway. Demands for acceleration at highway speed causes the engine rpm to go all over the place with not much punch and relationship to speed. But the hybrid drive is very quiet and smooth in regular city driving. In an ideal world one would have a 300h and a BMW in the garage and choose the car depending on the mood. That would be like having one's cake and eating it too.
I must use admit that I sometimes get irritated with the hybrid drive during spirited driving on the highway. Demands for acceleration at highway speed causes the engine rpm to go all over the place with not much punch and relationship to speed. But the hybrid drive is very quiet and smooth in regular city driving. In an ideal world one would have a 300h and a BMW in the garage and choose the car depending on the mood. That would be like having one's cake and eating it too.
Pit Crew
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 178
Likes: 11
From: TN
Consider why the Germans offer free maintenance for the first couple of years..it is to SELL cars. Once the first 2 yrs pass, the pain kicks in. German cars are much more expensive to maintain. The Germans know they cannot compete with Lexus on an even playing field, hence the "free maintenance" incentive.
Advanced
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 640
Likes: 94
From: Colorado
Have you guys ever wondered WHY German cars are less reliable ? It is certainly not lack of capability and technology on their part. And I don't buy the argument that their cars are more complex. I think a GS is just as complex as a 5 series. Same goes for an LS vs an E class benz. And I am sure they all take apart each other's cars to reverse engineer them. It is not about complexity. All of today's cars are more complex than those built 10 years ago but are more reliable. Why is it that the Germans don't get it. Same for British cars. What s the Japanese magic? This poor reputation is very expensive for these German companies, and I wonder why, despite their technical and financial resources they cannot beat the Japanese on reliability. After all, Germany is known for its engineers.
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 5,327
Likes: 1,612
From: SE PA
I have a buddy in CA that recently bought a new Porsche Panamera. Cost about $100,000.00. He drove it 400 miles and the transmission went. Been in the dealer's now for over a month and they just agreed to buy it back under the CA lemon law.
Last edited by bc6152; Jun 7, 2017 at 01:23 PM.
Pit Crew
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 178
Likes: 11
From: TN
Have you guys ever wondered WHY German cars are less reliable ? It is certainly not lack of capability and technology on their part. And I don't buy the argument that their cars are more complex. I think a GS is just as complex as a 5 series. Same goes for an LS vs an E class benz. And I am sure they all take apart each other's cars to reverse engineer them. It is not about complexity. All of today's cars are more complex than those built 10 years ago but are more reliable. Why is it that the Germans don't get it. Same for British cars. What s the Japanese magic? This poor reputation is very expensive for these German companies, and I wonder why, despite their technical and financial resources they cannot beat the Japanese on reliability. After all, Germany is known for its engineers.
Driver School Candidate
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
From: NC
Just got my first Lexus (2014) last week. I had a BMW that I loved and only got rid of because of the continued and HIGH cost of repairs (no longer under warranty). That experience has me scared to pieces about purchasing an extended warranty. I got the Lexus for the reliability ratings, but is it as reliable as the Lexus lovers claim? (I like my car, but I don't love it--yet.) Can anyone give me some piece of mind on the reliability of the brand? Has anyone needed to get their Lexus serviced often after 4yrs/50K?
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Pole Position
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,184
Likes: 1,735
From: NC
Just got my first Lexus (2014) last week. I had a BMW that I loved and only got rid of because of the continued and HIGH cost of repairs (no longer under warranty). That experience has me scared to pieces about purchasing an extended warranty. I got the Lexus for the reliability ratings, but is it as reliable as the Lexus lovers claim? (I like my car, but I don't love it--yet.) Can anyone give me some piece of mind on the reliability of the brand? Has anyone needed to get their Lexus serviced often after 4yrs/50K?
http://twocents.lifehacker.com/the-c...ver-1781639773
Lexus Champion
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 12,634
Likes: 296
From: Illinois
I saw this JD Power report, and thread, over on the Car Chat forum. According to the results Lexus has slipped vs. previous years, but keep in mind that it deals with Initial Quality vs. long tem reliability. It's more of a initial satisfaction report card.
http://www.nbcnews.com/business/auto...-s-kia-n775161
http://www.nbcnews.com/business/auto...-s-kia-n775161
Lead Lap
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 4,279
Likes: 1,034
From: Illinois
I saw this JD Power report, and thread, over on the Car Chat forum. According to the results Lexus has slipped vs. previous years, but keep in mind that it deals with Initial Quality vs. long tem reliability. It's more of a initial satisfaction report card.
http://www.nbcnews.com/business/auto...-s-kia-n775161
http://www.nbcnews.com/business/auto...-s-kia-n775161
I suspect that the increase in the number of initial problems with Lexus vehicles fits into that category. I also see that, in the JD Power report, Toyota slipped. Since Toyota and Lexus share much of the same technology, safety systems, infotainment systems, etc., that isn't surprising.
I also noticed that, even though Lexus has slipped, the ES still did reasonably well in its own vehicle category.
Driver School Candidate
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
From: NC
When reading a couple of articles about the JD Power report, it appears that the number of initial problems reported is up throughout the entire industry, and the main reason for that increase is issues with technology/electronics.
I suspect that the increase in the number of initial problems with Lexus vehicles fits into that category. I also see that, in the JD Power report, Toyota slipped. Since Toyota and Lexus share much of the same technology, safety systems, infotainment systems, etc., that isn't surprising.
I also noticed that, even though Lexus has slipped, the ES still did reasonably well in its own vehicle category.
I suspect that the increase in the number of initial problems with Lexus vehicles fits into that category. I also see that, in the JD Power report, Toyota slipped. Since Toyota and Lexus share much of the same technology, safety systems, infotainment systems, etc., that isn't surprising.
I also noticed that, even though Lexus has slipped, the ES still did reasonably well in its own vehicle category.
Thanks for sharing more. Today the car and I had a breakthrough in our "relationship". I really enjoyed myself. I'm going to get the maintenance done regularly, too, so I can help ensure it remains reliable. And based on my research and what's been shared here, I'm not messing with any extra technology.
Pole Position
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,184
Likes: 1,735
From: NC
I saw this JD Power report, and thread, over on the Car Chat forum. According to the results Lexus has slipped vs. previous years, but keep in mind that it deals with Initial Quality vs. long term reliability. It's more of a initial satisfaction report card.
http://www.nbcnews.com/business/auto...-s-kia-n775161
http://www.nbcnews.com/business/auto...-s-kia-n775161
http://twocents.lifehacker.com/the-c...ver-1781639773
Driver School Candidate
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
From: NC
I like knowing I have a dependable AND nice car. Now that I'm #teamlexus, I'm going to keep and enjoy the one I have. Time will reveal (ok, ok....the level of reliability...lol) will reveal how long I stay. In the meantime, I'm about to order a couple of accessories for my new baby. She needs a little lipstick, of sorts. With the empty plate holder on the front of the car, she looks homely like a "Maude" or "Merle"....I need her to look like a "Stacy" or an "Eve". 
Lexus Champion
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 12,634
Likes: 296
From: Illinois
Some additional information. CR shows the Lexus brand with a Better Than Average Score for Owner Satisfaction. Other brands with similar ratings are Audi, BMW and Subaru (Porsche is Much Higher Than Average).
From their Brand Report Card the top rated brands overall in order are Audi, Porsche, BMW, Lexus and Subaru.
They base this on Road Test Score, Predicted Reliability, Owner Satisfaction and % of Tested Models Recommended.
From their Brand Report Card the top rated brands overall in order are Audi, Porsche, BMW, Lexus and Subaru.
They base this on Road Test Score, Predicted Reliability, Owner Satisfaction and % of Tested Models Recommended.