98 ES300 suspension
04-08-18, 11:55 PM
#1
Driver School Candidate
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: CA
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
98 ES300 suspension
My 1998 es300 has stock suspension. I believe the struts and the strut mounts are worn all around. Coils are likely still within usable condition but I have been looking at the various quickstuts offered on rock auto and amazon.
There are a good number of companies selling their brand name on quickstruts, but some speculate and I agree many quickstruts are manufactured by the same company and then give them different brands and logos. Also as I understand, many companies build a one size fit all strut that will bolt on to a camry, solara, and lexus; but the lexus and camry coils are often tuned slightly differently for weight differences.
What I would do if money and labor was no object, short of oem would be KYB struts and coils, toyota/lexus oem mounts/bearings. But I'm doing this myself and don't have the time or extra money to be building them myself.
So to my point; I'd like any feedback I can get regarding the various brands of quickstruts.
As far as I can tell, parts branded primechoiceauto, and detroit axle and similar seem to be bottom of the barrel.
I can't figure out where OSC and FSC might fall into the quickstrut heirarchy, but they are both in rockautos economy section.
I'm curious how the OSC and FSC's perform for this particular car but theres very little reviews pertaining to my make/model.
Also I would ideally buy a quickstrut actually made specifically for an es300, not a catch all. But that doesn't seem to exist.
So that leaves Monroes, moogs, and gabriels. Which apart from osc and fsc, I can find on amazon. I will likely make the purchase from amazon for slightly cheaper cost and shipping.
Which quickstruts should I get? I hear they are all stiffer than original equipment and thats fine, but I am hoping for something to last. Also is the consensus to go moog for other suspension equipment like sway bar links, control arms, and tie rod ends?
There are a good number of companies selling their brand name on quickstruts, but some speculate and I agree many quickstruts are manufactured by the same company and then give them different brands and logos. Also as I understand, many companies build a one size fit all strut that will bolt on to a camry, solara, and lexus; but the lexus and camry coils are often tuned slightly differently for weight differences.
What I would do if money and labor was no object, short of oem would be KYB struts and coils, toyota/lexus oem mounts/bearings. But I'm doing this myself and don't have the time or extra money to be building them myself.
So to my point; I'd like any feedback I can get regarding the various brands of quickstruts.
As far as I can tell, parts branded primechoiceauto, and detroit axle and similar seem to be bottom of the barrel.
I can't figure out where OSC and FSC might fall into the quickstrut heirarchy, but they are both in rockautos economy section.
I'm curious how the OSC and FSC's perform for this particular car but theres very little reviews pertaining to my make/model.
Also I would ideally buy a quickstrut actually made specifically for an es300, not a catch all. But that doesn't seem to exist.
So that leaves Monroes, moogs, and gabriels. Which apart from osc and fsc, I can find on amazon. I will likely make the purchase from amazon for slightly cheaper cost and shipping.
Which quickstruts should I get? I hear they are all stiffer than original equipment and thats fine, but I am hoping for something to last. Also is the consensus to go moog for other suspension equipment like sway bar links, control arms, and tie rod ends?
05-03-18, 12:33 AM
#2
Driver School Candidate
Quickstruts are just a little stiffer. I have them on my 1992 es300 5 speed. But it feels sportier; but not harsh at all.
I highly suggest the Moog parts because of the durability.
Please don't get the cheaper sway bar links. I learned the hard way.
Best advice i could give is to get a proper alignment after installing new suspension parts.
I had to replace a one-year old set of tires because I refused to get an alignment after installing all new front end kit.
I highly suggest the Moog parts because of the durability.
Please don't get the cheaper sway bar links. I learned the hard way.
Best advice i could give is to get a proper alignment after installing new suspension parts.
I had to replace a one-year old set of tires because I refused to get an alignment after installing all new front end kit.
Last edited by Synes; 05-03-18 at 12:35 AM. Reason: typos
05-03-18, 11:09 AM
#3
The only quickstrut I would put on with confidence would be the KYB (use the one for the same year Camry; as you figured out, it is just coil rate that is different). Moog would probably be OK, but I do really like KYB components and have them in other vehicles, too. In the TN camry/avalon forums, you see a lot of failures with economy struts.
When I confronted this problem, what I did was buy KYB struts cartridges. I then re-used the factory upper mounts on all corners as I had no problems with the mounts. They are still working perfectly at 300k miles (we have good roads here, though). The rear springs were shot and I used the Camry springs from Moog. The ride is excellent and barely different than stock, if I could even tell, honestly. KoreyWill and at least one other here have followed this recipe and been very happy with it (my total cost was about $425 with all small parts and my labor). I have had this in for over 65k now and it still feels great and I am confident will give good life. Changing springs is not terribly hard, loaner tools for it are free at auto stores.
All this work was on a 2002 but should be very similar for your 98. Since you are going to need an alignment after changing the front, it is good to do the lca/ball joint or tie rod ends if you think it’s time. If you do the outer tie rods, do the inner also (again, loaner tool is free). Be aware Moog has two lines of products now - “Problem Solver” which is their traditional OE-like offering, and a base line that is Chinese import/economy. I don’t think the Moog quickstrut is from their “Problem Sovler” line. I know in the aerospace industry, there have been some disturbing QC issues with Moog’s Chinese-sourced parts, so I don’t think you are getting anything better there than the barest economy offerings you would see elsewhere. Having said all that, I personally have never had a problem with a moog part (have rear coils in and just put in moog lower control arms). I point this out because now they have two lines of parts and there can be confusion.
As an aside, I have an unprovable suspicion a lot of people’s complaints about upper mounts are because of not torquing them correctly; it is a little tricky. If you do the install yourself, bone up on that detail and have the right tools or technique.
When I confronted this problem, what I did was buy KYB struts cartridges. I then re-used the factory upper mounts on all corners as I had no problems with the mounts. They are still working perfectly at 300k miles (we have good roads here, though). The rear springs were shot and I used the Camry springs from Moog. The ride is excellent and barely different than stock, if I could even tell, honestly. KoreyWill and at least one other here have followed this recipe and been very happy with it (my total cost was about $425 with all small parts and my labor). I have had this in for over 65k now and it still feels great and I am confident will give good life. Changing springs is not terribly hard, loaner tools for it are free at auto stores.
All this work was on a 2002 but should be very similar for your 98. Since you are going to need an alignment after changing the front, it is good to do the lca/ball joint or tie rod ends if you think it’s time. If you do the outer tie rods, do the inner also (again, loaner tool is free). Be aware Moog has two lines of products now - “Problem Solver” which is their traditional OE-like offering, and a base line that is Chinese import/economy. I don’t think the Moog quickstrut is from their “Problem Sovler” line. I know in the aerospace industry, there have been some disturbing QC issues with Moog’s Chinese-sourced parts, so I don’t think you are getting anything better there than the barest economy offerings you would see elsewhere. Having said all that, I personally have never had a problem with a moog part (have rear coils in and just put in moog lower control arms). I point this out because now they have two lines of parts and there can be confusion.
As an aside, I have an unprovable suspicion a lot of people’s complaints about upper mounts are because of not torquing them correctly; it is a little tricky. If you do the install yourself, bone up on that detail and have the right tools or technique.
Last edited by Oro; 05-03-18 at 11:28 AM.
The following users liked this post:
BMeek (05-11-18)
05-10-18, 03:47 PM
#4
Driver School Candidate
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: CA
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I would like to give my thanks for your inputs. I believe I have settled on the KYB readystruts.
Parts: SR4031,SR4032,SR4035,SR4036.
Synes you say don't cheap out on the sway bar linkages, I was already thinking quite the opposite. I'm tempted to purchase some whitleline sway bar links for the 98 camry. Is this overkill? Will the ride be noticeably better? Does pro forge make decent sway bar links? Looking at those, mevotech, or moog. Either way new parts will vastly improve the old moveable-by-hand links currently on the car.
The next thing I must decide is if I should attempt this all myself. I got a local shop that will let me bring my own parts in. If I wanted to do this myself I would have to go out and purchase a minimum of: Floor jack, jackstands, torque wrench, breaker bar, and likely a new batch of impact sockets. Am I correct in assuming impact sockets, for impact guns are no different from household sockets in all ways but material strength? I have a mismatched socket set and if I'm gonna make it whole again I might as well upgrade.
I want to do this myself but the reason for doing this is to save money. I wonder how much will I actually save myself (or trade for blood, sweat, and tears) once it is all said and done. I'm worried I'll get stuck at the first steering knuckle nut or something and won't be able to get it unstuck, leaving me to take the car to the shop; or hit the hardware store for a last minute impact gun. Both of which situations leave me worse than I was financially.
Here's a quick list of pro's and con's I came up with, if you guys could give your own input on doing work yourself vs. letting a shop do it that would be nice.
PRO:
*Work on my own car, familiarize myself with it more
*Don't spend money on parts and labor from a shop
*New tools to play with
*I choose what I put on my car (could be a con)
*Once I do have all the tools bought, money for automotive spending(parts) will likely go further
CON
*New tools to keep track of, store, maintain
*If I let the shop do everything (parts and labor) they offer a warranty. If I screw up working on my car, its on me. If the shop screws up I get a bit more leeway, if they're honest (which I think they are).
*Could have my car laid up for days at a time, this is my only car. If I did do work, it'd have to be in small intervals of work vs. Shop just fixes it all in a day.
*Summer, ****s gonna be hot
*If I mess something up or stuff needs further fixing that I cannot or don't want to attempt, it could negate any potential savings from DIYing.
*My valve cover gasket is leaking and my timing belt and peripherals are due, arguably more important things than a worn suspension. These are things I'm undecided if I want to even attempt, especially since the shop in question gave me very fair quotes on both of those items.
I think that just about concludes my spiel. Thinking about getting the moog front end kit, or similar but I don't yet know if things like my LCA, BJ, and Tierods are worn and worth replacing. I guess I'll decide all that when the other stuff goes on.
Thanks for reading, if anyone has any suggestions feel free to add.
Parts: SR4031,SR4032,SR4035,SR4036.
Synes you say don't cheap out on the sway bar linkages, I was already thinking quite the opposite. I'm tempted to purchase some whitleline sway bar links for the 98 camry. Is this overkill? Will the ride be noticeably better? Does pro forge make decent sway bar links? Looking at those, mevotech, or moog. Either way new parts will vastly improve the old moveable-by-hand links currently on the car.
The next thing I must decide is if I should attempt this all myself. I got a local shop that will let me bring my own parts in. If I wanted to do this myself I would have to go out and purchase a minimum of: Floor jack, jackstands, torque wrench, breaker bar, and likely a new batch of impact sockets. Am I correct in assuming impact sockets, for impact guns are no different from household sockets in all ways but material strength? I have a mismatched socket set and if I'm gonna make it whole again I might as well upgrade.
I want to do this myself but the reason for doing this is to save money. I wonder how much will I actually save myself (or trade for blood, sweat, and tears) once it is all said and done. I'm worried I'll get stuck at the first steering knuckle nut or something and won't be able to get it unstuck, leaving me to take the car to the shop; or hit the hardware store for a last minute impact gun. Both of which situations leave me worse than I was financially.
Here's a quick list of pro's and con's I came up with, if you guys could give your own input on doing work yourself vs. letting a shop do it that would be nice.
PRO:
*Work on my own car, familiarize myself with it more
*Don't spend money on parts and labor from a shop
*New tools to play with
*I choose what I put on my car (could be a con)
*Once I do have all the tools bought, money for automotive spending(parts) will likely go further
CON
*New tools to keep track of, store, maintain
*If I let the shop do everything (parts and labor) they offer a warranty. If I screw up working on my car, its on me. If the shop screws up I get a bit more leeway, if they're honest (which I think they are).
*Could have my car laid up for days at a time, this is my only car. If I did do work, it'd have to be in small intervals of work vs. Shop just fixes it all in a day.
*Summer, ****s gonna be hot
*If I mess something up or stuff needs further fixing that I cannot or don't want to attempt, it could negate any potential savings from DIYing.
*My valve cover gasket is leaking and my timing belt and peripherals are due, arguably more important things than a worn suspension. These are things I'm undecided if I want to even attempt, especially since the shop in question gave me very fair quotes on both of those items.
I think that just about concludes my spiel. Thinking about getting the moog front end kit, or similar but I don't yet know if things like my LCA, BJ, and Tierods are worn and worth replacing. I guess I'll decide all that when the other stuff goes on.
Thanks for reading, if anyone has any suggestions feel free to add.
05-12-18, 12:41 PM
#5
Driver School Candidate
Price does make a differnce in parts
I notice there is a differnce in the quality and materials used in suspension parts. That’s just my experience and my own wasted money.. But just continue your awesome research. And when you learn something new please educate us also. Best of luck in your repairs. Remember patience is not only a virtue it also saves lives especially yours.
05-12-18, 06:01 PM
#6
The whiteline adjustable sway bar end links are for customizing suspension on tracked cars. They are of no added value to you for a lexus ES daily driver. I changed the end links when I did the lower control arms/ball joints and used discounted delco or moog parts that were maybe $10 each or something. They will be about OE in quality or close enough to last a long time.
As to your bigger question, presuming you have a garage and place to store tools and work, you should go buy the tools. Doing a quick strut swap is pretty straightforward. You are unlikely to get into any situation you can’t get out of and it’s a good learning step. You will familiarize yourself with the suspension and general techniques and then build confidence and skill to take on harder jobs in the future like a control arm swap, bearing replacement, power steering pump rebuild/replacement, etc. Because eventually you will have to confront those things and either pay someone to do it or do it yourself. The only other alternative is to buy a new car or fairly late model used car, and then sell it at around 100k miles.
For a diy mechanic, Harbor Freight is a god-send. You can get inexpensive but serviceable specialty tools there. Also check craigslist. A 1” diameter 2’ long piece of steel pipe is $8 at Ace or Home Depot. You slip it over the end of your 1/2” breaker bar and you have a long enough breaker bar to remove even axle nuts, etc. I have access to air tools and impact guns, but honestly rarely use them, and then only really when I have a big job and want to save time removing 13 bolts on a transmission pan, or something like that. Professional mechanics need them for speed and massive variety of kludged stuff they have to face, but you don’t HAVE to have them for 99% of jobs.
When you have the car jacked up, you can google how to evaluate bearings, ball joints, tie rod ends, etc. (mainly, wiggling the front wheel in different directions and grabbing the coil while spinning the wheel). Oh, last thing, do get a really good multi-ton hydraulic floor jack. They make it much easier, and can be caught on sale for not big $$. Lastly, when it’s really easy to lift the car onto stands, you are MUCH more likely to do it and then do inspections or small jobs. This will let you catch things and improve your skills and make your car safer and more reliable. I am talking about something like this:
https://www.harborfreight.com/3-ton-...ump-68048.html
As to your bigger question, presuming you have a garage and place to store tools and work, you should go buy the tools. Doing a quick strut swap is pretty straightforward. You are unlikely to get into any situation you can’t get out of and it’s a good learning step. You will familiarize yourself with the suspension and general techniques and then build confidence and skill to take on harder jobs in the future like a control arm swap, bearing replacement, power steering pump rebuild/replacement, etc. Because eventually you will have to confront those things and either pay someone to do it or do it yourself. The only other alternative is to buy a new car or fairly late model used car, and then sell it at around 100k miles.
For a diy mechanic, Harbor Freight is a god-send. You can get inexpensive but serviceable specialty tools there. Also check craigslist. A 1” diameter 2’ long piece of steel pipe is $8 at Ace or Home Depot. You slip it over the end of your 1/2” breaker bar and you have a long enough breaker bar to remove even axle nuts, etc. I have access to air tools and impact guns, but honestly rarely use them, and then only really when I have a big job and want to save time removing 13 bolts on a transmission pan, or something like that. Professional mechanics need them for speed and massive variety of kludged stuff they have to face, but you don’t HAVE to have them for 99% of jobs.
When you have the car jacked up, you can google how to evaluate bearings, ball joints, tie rod ends, etc. (mainly, wiggling the front wheel in different directions and grabbing the coil while spinning the wheel). Oh, last thing, do get a really good multi-ton hydraulic floor jack. They make it much easier, and can be caught on sale for not big $$. Lastly, when it’s really easy to lift the car onto stands, you are MUCH more likely to do it and then do inspections or small jobs. This will let you catch things and improve your skills and make your car safer and more reliable. I am talking about something like this:
https://www.harborfreight.com/3-ton-...ump-68048.html
05-16-18, 01:41 PM
#7
Driver School Candidate
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: CA
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks again for the added input.
Looks like whiteline is out and moog is in.
I agree, harbor freight is the place to go.
I was going start with doing my front brakes(pads+rotors), readystruts, and swaybar links. But am curious if it would be worth it to just do the LCA, balljoints, and tie rod(in+out) all in one fell swoop. Pretty sure its all original so it is about time.
Is this too ambitious?
Are the rear control arms(trailing arms) and the like worth replacing when I get to the rear? You don't see as many forum posts about those causing issues vs. the sway bar bushing or similar. Is this because these parts generally don't wear like other suspension pieces? I can tug on these and move them by hand from underneath the car, are these ever a source of the groan/golfball clunk when going over rough roads or speedbumps?
Luckily I found a friend who is willing to loan me a pair of jackstands and a jack. So I feel more comfortable spending money on a impact tool, if I have to. I'm gonna take Oro's word for it and try muscling with it first. After all, a BFH or torch are cheaper alternatives to unfreezing a stuck nut or bolt vs. an impact gun and all the accessories that cost with it.
Looks like whiteline is out and moog is in.
I agree, harbor freight is the place to go.
I was going start with doing my front brakes(pads+rotors), readystruts, and swaybar links. But am curious if it would be worth it to just do the LCA, balljoints, and tie rod(in+out) all in one fell swoop. Pretty sure its all original so it is about time.
Is this too ambitious?
Are the rear control arms(trailing arms) and the like worth replacing when I get to the rear? You don't see as many forum posts about those causing issues vs. the sway bar bushing or similar. Is this because these parts generally don't wear like other suspension pieces? I can tug on these and move them by hand from underneath the car, are these ever a source of the groan/golfball clunk when going over rough roads or speedbumps?
Luckily I found a friend who is willing to loan me a pair of jackstands and a jack. So I feel more comfortable spending money on a impact tool, if I have to. I'm gonna take Oro's word for it and try muscling with it first. After all, a BFH or torch are cheaper alternatives to unfreezing a stuck nut or bolt vs. an impact gun and all the accessories that cost with it.
Trending Topics
05-21-18, 12:55 AM
#8
Driver School Candidate
IMHO, if you got the parts, do it. I did, and yes you will feel like you're driving a different car. Almost like a new car.
I didn't use any impact tool. Just your strength will suffice. And it will save you a trip to the gym.
Please show us your before and after work.
Be safe.
I didn't use any impact tool. Just your strength will suffice. And it will save you a trip to the gym.
Please show us your before and after work.
Be safe.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post