Oro

I've spent a lot of time and effort to find a filter that won't leak down on our 1mz-fe engines. This engine seems harder on filters than any I have ever experienced. The placement is horrible (horizontal next to the header and cat). Dry starts are just a no-go. I just finished a 10-month run and 14,500 miles on a Fram Ultra XG3614 and never detected one leak-down by the filter (not my daily driver though, it's hers could have happened). I cut it open and posted the results and more details at BITOG:

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ub...10#Post4531710

Give it a look if you are interested. These are very highly regarded filters, and if it can work reliably that long in this engine, I'm seriously impressed. Oh, and the filtration efficiency is supposed to be out of this world.

LeX2K

No filter is going to prevent sludge you're playing with fire.

TopTiger

Please advise part number of the correct Fram Ultra Synthetic Oil filter for a 2003 Lexus 300 ES. Car has 209,000 miles, uses no oil and has always had synthetic oil. Also, is the Royal Purple oil filter a better choice. Car will only be driven ~5,000 miles per year.

Oro

I think you misunderstood, the filter goes longer mileage, NOT the oil. Fram rates the filter for 20k miles; I went shorter to test and particularly observe adbv resilience.

The correct p/n is XG3614. I don’t know a lot about out RP filters, they have the same type acked media and likely have similar filtration characteristics. Some of the big pluses for the Fram ultra are there wide availability and very competitive price because of Fram’s size and distribution network.

LeX2K

You ran the engine almost 10,000 miles on the same oil, correct? BTW what makes that filter so great? Can't tell by the picture except the filter element looks nasty and way past its useful life. I've cut open OEM filters from my car it looked nothing like that was still basically clean.
What do you mean by leak down? And how do you know?

BTW the worst oil stays in the filter so draining what's in the pan is not a complete refresh.

Oro

Lubrication technology has changed a lot since the thin 5w-30s, buffed up with rubber and other polymers to make them 30 when hot, that predominated in the 90s and led to issues. This, along with mind-boggling long drain intervals is what caused sludge in these engines back then. This is not that. If anything was a concern, it would be running the group II/III Castrol 5k miles - that would be MORE of a concern than running a predominantly PAO/group IV based Mobil 1 HM oil to 9k miles (and that's why the Castrol run was so short). There's a wide laboratory record of these engines running very happily to 10k and further intervals on high quality full synthetic oils. Also note, I'm using a 10w-30, which in FS oil generally means a 30 weight that pours like a 10 when cold, NOT a 10 weight that pours like a 5 and has a high % of fragile additives mixed into it to get it up to 30 when hot. Those additives then break down much more rapidly (than base oil) with use. I'm using oils with the explicit goal of protecting the engine, not the ones recommended to meet CAFE fuel standards and sacrifice protection for a 1/10th of a gallon fuel savings.

The filter looks like new except it's oil-saturated. It shows no signs of stress by analyzing the pleats, spacing, or ends where fused to the caps. If a filter comes out looking "basically clean," you've gotten a poor-quality filter that isn't, well, filtering. It should be picking up contaminants and not leaving them in the oil. A filter should be filthy when it comes out, and it is actually working better when dirty as it increases its filtration efficiency. Longer filter replacement intervasl over multiple oil changes are the new black - it works better as long as the filter is built sturdily enough to do it. Oddly, Honda has been saying this for about 25 years, but not many people really listened.

I mean the filter leaking down because of adbv failure as the post describes. You can detect this on cold start-up by listening. You will hear the engine running w/o oil pressure for 5 to 10 seconds as the filter refills. I listen carefully at each cold-start, as I do with all my vehicles. It's a real problem on this engine because of several facets of filter placement as described.

The oil in the filter is no different than anywhere else in the engine - it's just passing through at the moment of shut-down. The contaminants in the filter stay there - if that's what you meant. The remaining oil in the filter is slightly more than what stays in the pan (you'd have to get a 1mz-fe up to about 45 degrees elevation to get the last 4/5 ounces of oil out of the pan - I tested this once when I had the pan off). Research shows, though, and this is so counter-intuitive, that leaving some old oil in is good as it helps the new oil not to strip the existing tribofilm off the metal, before the new oil has a chance to adapt it's chemistry to lay one down. Really unexpected but it's NOT a negative to leave some old oil in, nor from a fractional dilution perspective would it alter your new oil's effectiveness to any appreciable degree. Lubrication technology and understanding is so very, very different now than what I took as CW for decades. It has taken me years to understand the issues, test them a bit myself, and accept the standards now.

Now that oil analysis is so common, affordable, and easy to access, you don't have to take these things on faith but can test yourself. Group III+/IV/V oils run just as long and well in these engines as other engines w/o problem. I throw my M1 HM out at 7,500 and it's probably got an easy 5k left; I'm conservative. The main point was not to start an oil debate, but to point out the really successful run I had with the Ultra protecting against dry starts - a remarkable 15k miles - when I can't get most well respected filters (Motorcraft/Purolator, Wix/Napa Gold, etc) to last 1/2 that in this car. No problem in most other cars I personally know, but this engine is a challenge in that regard.

speedkar9

Ah so that's what that clatter is on a cold start eh? I never used to get any noise on my 1MZ Solara, but on my 04 Camry I'm hearing that noise. I don't know what its oil history is since I just got it.

artbuc

Oro, I believe you are wrong about the primary cause of sludge. Toyota said the 1mzfe had a design flaw (undersized returns) which they fixed.

OlderLex

NO matter what the after market manufacturers state about their oil and oil filters, keep in mind oil and filters will become dirty and need changing, almost always before the stated mileages the advertisers claim. They want you to believe, and pay more for, their wonderful products. Therefore, always change out your oil and filter prior the after market manufacturer's stated mileage. I would never drive my vehicle more than 8,500 miles, even with a name brand synthetic oil and filter.

crwys

Exactly.

My engine probably doesn't run like it use to at 0 miles when it first came out but everything works, no leaks, noises, ect. I used synthetic oil, with a Lucas oil additive that claimed 50% longer oil life and a Mobil high performance filter claiming 15,000 miles. By 7,000 miles my oil was getting dark and I was noticing performance issues.

Now I'm back to my same routine with non synthetic oil and a cheap fram oil filter from Wal-Mart every 3k miles.

OlderLex

Just go to Walmart and get a Fram oil filter (not their cheapest model) and any name brand synthetic blend oil; change every 7000 to 8000 miles and you'll be very happy. Your wallet will be happy too.

crwys

I actually did the math on the cost savings of every 7k for synthetic vs every 3k for high mileage are barely anything. 5-10$ per oil change.
Also the book on my 99 states to change every 3k so why disregard that?

Oro

Because oil technology has changed in the 25 years since the engine was designed and the rec’s wrtten for dino oils of that time.

You are welcome to your routine, but it isn’t necessary to try to challenge others who embrace the change. There is a large body of empirical and scientific evidence showing how this works, and how it works well in this engine.

The point here really is to point out a very high quality filter available for a small price premium that really seems to deliver. I don’t see enough discussion of how hard this engine is on filters, and how often it induces adbv failure. That’s an important anti-wear issue.

crwys

I wasn't challenging anyone just sharing my experience.

LeX2K

The engine hasn't changed, the 1MZ isn't suddenly going to stop contaminating the oil from blow by and the PCV system. Especially as the engine ages. And as pointed out the cost savings are so small it simply doesn't make sense to extent the OCI to such a degree.

I personally will not be risking my investment to try and save a few $$$ but if you feel comfortable then great.