ES 300 transmission shift - lack there of?
01-15-10, 08:24 AM
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ES 300 transmission shift - lack there of?
I have been noticing the last couple of mornings / evenings the transmission not wanting to shift into OD. It's been cold here, but I have my daughter crank it in the morning, and usually it runs for about 10 - 15 minutes before we leave the house. I live about 2 miles from the interstate, but the road I take to get there is a 45 mph zone. It takes about a mile or so before the care will go into OD. But once it does, it's fine for the rest of the drive.
In the evening it does the same thing when I leave work, but I don't let it warm up but for a few minutes. It may take a mile and a half to 2 miles to shift into OD.
The ES usually sits in the garage, but I have a lot of stuff going on in the garage right now, and I don't have a spot for it. I have never noticed it before but I have only started driving this car everyday over the last 3 months. It was my wife's daily driver, and when it comes to asking her questions about what the car is doing, well I just would rather not go there.
Transmission hasn't been serviced from me, but I did buy it from the original owner and they had Lexus do a fluid change / flush when the 90K timing belt change was done.
So, is anyone else having or HAD this happen.
Thanks
In the evening it does the same thing when I leave work, but I don't let it warm up but for a few minutes. It may take a mile and a half to 2 miles to shift into OD.
The ES usually sits in the garage, but I have a lot of stuff going on in the garage right now, and I don't have a spot for it. I have never noticed it before but I have only started driving this car everyday over the last 3 months. It was my wife's daily driver, and when it comes to asking her questions about what the car is doing, well I just would rather not go there.
Transmission hasn't been serviced from me, but I did buy it from the original owner and they had Lexus do a fluid change / flush when the 90K timing belt change was done.
So, is anyone else having or HAD this happen.
Thanks
01-15-10, 10:54 AM
#2
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there is a possibility it's functioning properly.
you are not supposed to let a car sit there idling for 15 min to warm it up. you're supposed to drive it to do that. at most, you should only let the car ''warm up'' [cold start idle] for 3 minutes, and that's only if it's so cold that the oil is near it's limits [let's say 0 deg F].
since i don't know what temperature equals cold where you live, it's kind of hard to give the best analysis.
the transmission doesn't get up to temp as quickly as the engine when the car is idling.
try taking my advice and you may see almost the same result, less the wasted gas from idling those excessive minutes.
the transmission is designed to avoid overdrive and lock up clutch until the engine and trans is fully warmed up. this is because the parts are under less load, believe it, when the gear ratio is lower. the idea is that there will not be that much fuel savings if the engine is not running optimally yet, and the engine can't run optimally as quickly unless it revs a little bit higher. AND the idea is that the excessive load on the engine not up to operating temp will cause premature engine failure. AND the trans fluid gets up to temp faster which means the parts in the transmission will not experience stress and premature failure that occurs when the fluid is not up to temp, as well as the parts not up to temp.
your transmission is electroncially controlled. what your car is doing automatically I do with my transmission. I do means I only use 5th gear when the coolant temp is at normal "at normal temperature" point. i also hold lower gears longer when driving after a cold start, and avoid jack rabbit acceleration.
that said, if you have any doubts about maintenance you should perform it.
you mention the transmission service history. transmission flushes can cause major problems especially if the flush wasn't done on a regular basis. instead, a pan drop is better. a pan drop is where only the fluid in the pan is drained and the filter is changed.
in short, it's probably working fine. stop letting it sit there for 15 min because you're accomplishing very little, but wasting a lot of gas and tending to spoil the motor oil with fuel blow by. if you're in truely extreme climate, get a block heater.
you are not supposed to let a car sit there idling for 15 min to warm it up. you're supposed to drive it to do that. at most, you should only let the car ''warm up'' [cold start idle] for 3 minutes, and that's only if it's so cold that the oil is near it's limits [let's say 0 deg F].
since i don't know what temperature equals cold where you live, it's kind of hard to give the best analysis.
the transmission doesn't get up to temp as quickly as the engine when the car is idling.
try taking my advice and you may see almost the same result, less the wasted gas from idling those excessive minutes.
the transmission is designed to avoid overdrive and lock up clutch until the engine and trans is fully warmed up. this is because the parts are under less load, believe it, when the gear ratio is lower. the idea is that there will not be that much fuel savings if the engine is not running optimally yet, and the engine can't run optimally as quickly unless it revs a little bit higher. AND the idea is that the excessive load on the engine not up to operating temp will cause premature engine failure. AND the trans fluid gets up to temp faster which means the parts in the transmission will not experience stress and premature failure that occurs when the fluid is not up to temp, as well as the parts not up to temp.
your transmission is electroncially controlled. what your car is doing automatically I do with my transmission. I do means I only use 5th gear when the coolant temp is at normal "at normal temperature" point. i also hold lower gears longer when driving after a cold start, and avoid jack rabbit acceleration.
that said, if you have any doubts about maintenance you should perform it.
you mention the transmission service history. transmission flushes can cause major problems especially if the flush wasn't done on a regular basis. instead, a pan drop is better. a pan drop is where only the fluid in the pan is drained and the filter is changed.
in short, it's probably working fine. stop letting it sit there for 15 min because you're accomplishing very little, but wasting a lot of gas and tending to spoil the motor oil with fuel blow by. if you're in truely extreme climate, get a block heater.
Last edited by llcoolpass; 01-15-10 at 10:58 AM.
01-15-10, 11:41 AM
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there is a possibility it's functioning properly.
you are not supposed to let a car sit there idling for 15 min to warm it up. you're supposed to drive it to do that. at most, you should only let the car ''warm up'' [cold start idle] for 3 minutes, and that's only if it's so cold that the oil is near it's limits [let's say 0 deg F].
since i don't know what temperature equals cold where you live, it's kind of hard to give the best analysis.
the transmission doesn't get up to temp as quickly as the engine when the car is idling.
try taking my advice and you may see almost the same result, less the wasted gas from idling those excessive minutes.
the transmission is designed to avoid overdrive and lock up clutch until the engine and trans is fully warmed up. this is because the parts are under less load, believe it, when the gear ratio is lower. the idea is that there will not be that much fuel savings if the engine is not running optimally yet, and the engine can't run optimally as quickly unless it revs a little bit higher. AND the idea is that the excessive load on the engine not up to operating temp will cause premature engine failure. AND the trans fluid gets up to temp faster which means the parts in the transmission will not experience stress and premature failure that occurs when the fluid is not up to temp, as well as the parts not up to temp.
your transmission is electroncially controlled. what your car is doing automatically I do with my transmission. I do means I only use 5th gear when the coolant temp is at normal "at normal temperature" point. i also hold lower gears longer when driving after a cold start, and avoid jack rabbit acceleration.
that said, if you have any doubts about maintenance you should perform it.
you mention the transmission service history. transmission flushes can cause major problems especially if the flush wasn't done on a regular basis. instead, a pan drop is better. a pan drop is where only the fluid in the pan is drained and the filter is changed.
in short, it's probably working fine. stop letting it sit there for 15 min because you're accomplishing very little, but wasting a lot of gas and tending to spoil the motor oil with fuel blow by. if you're in truely extreme climate, get a block heater.
you are not supposed to let a car sit there idling for 15 min to warm it up. you're supposed to drive it to do that. at most, you should only let the car ''warm up'' [cold start idle] for 3 minutes, and that's only if it's so cold that the oil is near it's limits [let's say 0 deg F].
since i don't know what temperature equals cold where you live, it's kind of hard to give the best analysis.
the transmission doesn't get up to temp as quickly as the engine when the car is idling.
try taking my advice and you may see almost the same result, less the wasted gas from idling those excessive minutes.
the transmission is designed to avoid overdrive and lock up clutch until the engine and trans is fully warmed up. this is because the parts are under less load, believe it, when the gear ratio is lower. the idea is that there will not be that much fuel savings if the engine is not running optimally yet, and the engine can't run optimally as quickly unless it revs a little bit higher. AND the idea is that the excessive load on the engine not up to operating temp will cause premature engine failure. AND the trans fluid gets up to temp faster which means the parts in the transmission will not experience stress and premature failure that occurs when the fluid is not up to temp, as well as the parts not up to temp.
your transmission is electroncially controlled. what your car is doing automatically I do with my transmission. I do means I only use 5th gear when the coolant temp is at normal "at normal temperature" point. i also hold lower gears longer when driving after a cold start, and avoid jack rabbit acceleration.
that said, if you have any doubts about maintenance you should perform it.
you mention the transmission service history. transmission flushes can cause major problems especially if the flush wasn't done on a regular basis. instead, a pan drop is better. a pan drop is where only the fluid in the pan is drained and the filter is changed.
in short, it's probably working fine. stop letting it sit there for 15 min because you're accomplishing very little, but wasting a lot of gas and tending to spoil the motor oil with fuel blow by. if you're in truely extreme climate, get a block heater.
Some things you mention make a lot of sense, others not so much.
I believe it to be functioning properly, as I've seen no other issues. I too do fluid changes on my vehicles every 3 oil changes (@ 12K miles) and filters every 60K. The fluid dump, if that is what it was, was before I had it, so it is what it is.
01-16-10, 02:41 PM
#7
Driver School Candidate
hi, thanks for this thread as my 99 300 was doing the same thing last week when temps here in Wisconsin fell below 0 degrees, the transmission took a long time for the overdrive to kick in, i was worried but it seems that now the weather is above 0 its shifting fine... thanks llcoolpass as Ive read your postings and they always seem informative!!!!
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01-16-10, 10:57 PM
#8
Lexus Champion
i'm always informative but not always pleasant ;-)
not bad for a guy in a rare 5 speed manual....
now, depending on your auto acumen, would you be able to tell us, is/are your cars not using overdrive or are they not using lock up clutch, or both?
not bad for a guy in a rare 5 speed manual....
now, depending on your auto acumen, would you be able to tell us, is/are your cars not using overdrive or are they not using lock up clutch, or both?
Last edited by llcoolpass; 01-16-10 at 11:04 PM.
01-17-10, 05:10 AM
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The lock-up is a very valid point, and I do think you're right on the mark. The comparison to the 5spd vs. auto is the only comment that didn't make much sense to me. With the differences of the conv. to clutch, and the flow passages of the automatic vs the gearbox of the 5 spd. they are night and day apart. I believe that toyota switched to the same ATF in 2002, between the 2 so that much might be the same.
Also, with having a trans. temp gauge in my tow vehicle and racecar, with proper idle time, it doesn't take long for the fluid to get into optimal temp. range. A faster way to get it to temperature is to put it under load, which is the same thing you are doing by holding your shifts.
Thanks again for your response.
01-17-10, 06:40 PM
#10
Lexus Champion
I'm not making any comparisons between the design of your transmission and mine. I was talking about the gear selections effect on the load on the engine parts. understand better?
when you say load in your second beefy paragraph, you're not thinking like me. allow me to clarify. I'm talking about heavy load vs light load. its better to actually get out some waste horsepower by putting the engine under 'light load by selecting a lower gear while cold' compared to the higher gear 'the warmed up engine for fuel economy sake' would be.
example. 25 mph, you can use any gear. but you want to on a cold engine not rev too high [over 4K rpm] but not too low [high load]. the higher the rpm, which is the lower the gear, the lower the load [except on the valve train, which is the reason for the 4k limit]. the lower the rpm, the higher the gear .... which means more load.
on a cold engine, you trade off energy efficiency in order get the higher waste your engine puts out by being at higher rpm and less load. this waste energy warms up the motor oil and the coolant and transmission fluid and the parts of both. this is achieved with a lower gear than you would use on the engine that is at operating temperature. subarus even hold second gear longer in the cold than your lexus does.
its better to get the trans fluid in auto trans up to operating temperature slower if it insures the parts adquately warm up and are not subjected to stresses from load and from shifts. so, said differently, your transmission fluid and part clearances are designed for a set operating temperature. if transmission is cold, its better for it if the shift and lock up clutch pattern are altered until the desired temp is obtained. getting up to temp faster at the expense of part life is not something the transmission computer controller is designed to achieve. that would be foolish.
I am curious if your car was holding 3rd gear or was in 4th gear but not lock up clutched.
when you say load in your second beefy paragraph, you're not thinking like me. allow me to clarify. I'm talking about heavy load vs light load. its better to actually get out some waste horsepower by putting the engine under 'light load by selecting a lower gear while cold' compared to the higher gear 'the warmed up engine for fuel economy sake' would be.
example. 25 mph, you can use any gear. but you want to on a cold engine not rev too high [over 4K rpm] but not too low [high load]. the higher the rpm, which is the lower the gear, the lower the load [except on the valve train, which is the reason for the 4k limit]. the lower the rpm, the higher the gear .... which means more load.
on a cold engine, you trade off energy efficiency in order get the higher waste your engine puts out by being at higher rpm and less load. this waste energy warms up the motor oil and the coolant and transmission fluid and the parts of both. this is achieved with a lower gear than you would use on the engine that is at operating temperature. subarus even hold second gear longer in the cold than your lexus does.
its better to get the trans fluid in auto trans up to operating temperature slower if it insures the parts adquately warm up and are not subjected to stresses from load and from shifts. so, said differently, your transmission fluid and part clearances are designed for a set operating temperature. if transmission is cold, its better for it if the shift and lock up clutch pattern are altered until the desired temp is obtained. getting up to temp faster at the expense of part life is not something the transmission computer controller is designed to achieve. that would be foolish.
I am curious if your car was holding 3rd gear or was in 4th gear but not lock up clutched.
Last edited by llcoolpass; 01-17-10 at 06:46 PM.
08-30-10, 08:02 PM
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1999 ES300 does not shift to overdrive
Hello,
not sure how to post a new thread so using this. Hopefully people can see it and provide some guidance.
I just bought a high mileage 200k ES300. It has engine check engine and traction lights on. However, the bigger problem is that the car does not sift to overdrive ... at any speeds. I drove the car approximately 100 miles (probably should not have) but it just wont shift to overdrive and RPM stay at a high 3k at 60mph and almot 4k at 70mph.
I tried to read up and there are many posts around changing one or the other senors as well as unhooking the battery for 10 seconds and so forth. But I am not able to understand, what really is the problem and how to get it fixed.
Pls. help.
thanks
irfanhasan@hotmail.com
not sure how to post a new thread so using this. Hopefully people can see it and provide some guidance.
I just bought a high mileage 200k ES300. It has engine check engine and traction lights on. However, the bigger problem is that the car does not sift to overdrive ... at any speeds. I drove the car approximately 100 miles (probably should not have) but it just wont shift to overdrive and RPM stay at a high 3k at 60mph and almot 4k at 70mph.
I tried to read up and there are many posts around changing one or the other senors as well as unhooking the battery for 10 seconds and so forth. But I am not able to understand, what really is the problem and how to get it fixed.
Pls. help.
thanks
irfanhasan@hotmail.com
08-31-10, 04:56 AM
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08-31-10, 03:31 PM
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1999 ES300 does not shift to overdrive
Yes, it does have an OD switch and I did engage OD meaning I turned OD to on and the OD off light went out but no overdrive.
Got the engine light checked today and it is pointing to the knock sensor (and cat convertor). So I guess bottom line is that I would have to go one by one thru these costly repairs and hopefully get to a resolution.
Any suggestions? thanks.
Got the engine light checked today and it is pointing to the knock sensor (and cat convertor). So I guess bottom line is that I would have to go one by one thru these costly repairs and hopefully get to a resolution.
Any suggestions? thanks.
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