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Awesome It probably worked out better that you bedded them in on a track, it makes it easier since these require so much heat to properly bed in. What did you think of think of the whole HPDE experience? Has the track day bug already bitten you?
-Matt M.
It was great. I'm actually looking into signing up for more events before the season is over
I just completely destroyed a set of these brakes in little over one track day, that's all they lasted. I'm not sure whether that's how long they suppose to last or whatever I did might have caused them to wear out quicker, but other brands lasted much longer.
I bedded them on slightly used front rotors that were resurfaced, I did not change the rear pads for ProjectMu's as EBC's still had plenty of meat left on them, but maybe that upset the bias due to different friction material of the EBC vs. ProjectMu causing the front to wear out much quicker or maybe because that is a much grippier pad it'll wear out quicker than others.
My style of braking is very aggressive, I slam the brakes before the turn to minimize the braking distance and slightly let off to allow for smooth transition. I liked how the ProjectMu's felt, very grippy pads but darn, single track day and gone, wonder if I could have overheated the brakes causing the wear to skyrocket. I need a better brake-ducting system.
Wow..I'm surprised you destroyed those pads so quickly, Tom.
Are you still on OEM rotors? How do they look? I've been getting these pads pretty hot.. The cracks in my OEM rotors were bad enough that I decided to upgrade to slotted rotors.. Perhaps the extra mass of my new rotors is helping keep the pads cooler. Still, there's some life left in these pads after 8 track days and near daily driving since April..
Pic is from last Saturday after the 8th track day.
Wow..I'm surprised you destroyed those pads so quickly, Tom.
Are you still on OEM rotors? How do they look? I've been getting these pads pretty hot.. The cracks in my OEM rotors were bad enough that I decided to upgrade to slotted rotors.. Perhaps the extra mass of my new rotors is helping keep the pads cooler. Still, there's some life left in these pads after 8 track days and near daily driving since April..
Pic is from last Saturday after the 8th track day.
-Mike
Mike,
The rotors look great, there are some cracks around the drill-holes but they don't link up nor are there cracks on OD, so I don't think that's the case here. I also cleaned up all the holes from brake dust and even now upon closer inspection they're not fouled, not sure what happened here.
I just completely destroyed a set of these brakes in little over one track day, that's all they lasted. I'm not sure whether that's how long they suppose to last or whatever I did might have caused them to wear out quicker, but other brands lasted much longer.
I bedded them on slightly used front rotors that were resurfaced, I did not change the rear pads for ProjectMu's as EBC's still had plenty of meat left on them, but maybe that upset the bias due to different friction material of the EBC vs. ProjectMu causing the front to wear out much quicker or maybe because that is a much grippier pad it'll wear out quicker than others.
My style of braking is very aggressive, I slam the brakes before the turn to minimize the braking distance and slightly let off to allow for smooth transition. I liked how the ProjectMu's felt, very grippy pads but darn, single track day and gone, wonder if I could have overheated the brakes causing the wear to skyrocket. I need a better brake-ducting system.
First and foremost I am sorry you went through them so quickly. To be honest I'm very surprised to hear you saw that kind of wear out of them but there are a few things that stand out to me. Not using the matching HC+800 rear compound (or similar) will accelerate the front wear drastically. The HC+800 have a different (more aggressive) torque curve when compared to many other pads in the same category but especially compared to any of EBC's compounds. At any given pedal pressure the front pads are working much harder than the rears, which builds excessive heat. Also if the usable temp ranges are different and the rear pads get hot and start giving up sooner than the fronts it will exacerbate the problem as the brake balance shifts forward even more. This leads to even more heat and wear on the fronts. You describe your braking style as aggressive and say you "slam" on the brakes. The point of having a higher initial bite and higher overall friction levels is partly so you can relax your inputs and reduce the pedal pressures needed to get what you want out of the tires. Are you braking hard enough to engage ABS in the bigger brake zones? Some other questions I have to help me get a better understanding of whats happening: How long are your sessions normally? Do you drive hard the entire session or take a cool down lap or two in the middle or towards the end of the session? Are you struggling with fade? What tires and tire sizes? What track(s) do you frequent? You mention brake ducting, are you already using ducting? If so how is it set up? Finally do you have any photos of the pad wear and rotors?
In the end it sounds to me like the main reason they wore so quickly is because of excessive heat. If you keep the temps in check they should wear very well.
-Matt M.
Last edited by SpeedFreaksUSA; 09-20-16 at 04:05 PM.
First and foremost I am sorry you went through them so quickly. To be honest I'm very surprised to hear you saw that kind of wear out of them but there are a few things that stand out to me. Not using the matching HC+800 rear compound (or similar) will accelerate the front wear drastically. The HC+800 have a different (more aggressive) torque curve when compared to many other pads in the same category but especially compared to any of EBC's compounds. At any given pedal pressure the front pads are working much harder than the rears, which builds excessive heat. Also if the usable temp ranges are different and the rear pads get hot and start giving up sooner than the fronts it will exacerbate the problem as the brake balance shifts forward even more. This leads to even more heat and wear on the fronts. You describe your braking style as aggressive and say you "slam" on the brakes. The point of having a higher initial bite and higher overall friction levels is partly so you can relax your inputs and reduce the pedal pressures needed to get what you want out of the tires. Are you braking hard enough to engage ABS in the bigger brake zones? Some other questions I have to help me get a better understanding of whats happening: How long are your sessions normally? Do you drive hard the entire session or take a cool down lap or two in the middle or towards the end of the session? Are you struggling with fade? What tires and tire sizes? What track(s) do you frequent? You mention brake ducting, are you already using ducting? If so how is it set up? Finally do you have any photos of the pad wear and rotors?
In the end it sounds to me like the main reason they wore so quickly is because of excessive heat. If you keep the temps in check they should wear very well.
-Matt M.
Matt,
That maybe the case, I think I overheated them, that's more likely the case, however, I'm just surprised, I've been doing this for 6 years now and never experienced such behavior, there's always a first. I just placed an order for new set of rotors, I'm ordering another set of pads, but also adding direct ducting to the rotors.
When I say 'slam' these are the cases when going high-speed and coming to a 90* turn, that's how I've been taught "hard on brakes and gently release", that's what I've been doing for years.
Let me try and answer your questions.
Are you braking hard enough to engage ABS in the bigger brake zones?
Sometimes, not always -- I get to overshoot a turn especially in rain, this was a rainy day
How long are your sessions normally?
Previous event I had was at NJMP - Lightning total of 6 sessions each being around 17-20min however, this time around I've been on the track for about 45min
Do you drive hard the entire session or take a cool down lap or two in the middle or towards the end of the session?
Towards the end, this past track day was high-speed event
Are you struggling with fade?
Not really, in other cars I experienced it, never on the ISF yet
What tires and tire sizes?
Tires: R888 265x35x18 square setup
What track(s) do you frequent?
Mostly local and depends on configuration, Pocono Mega is a high-speed track which I attended last (150mph) speeds - 3.5 Mile
You mention brake ducting, are you already using ducting?
Whatever is on the ISF currently, just a jet coming out of the fender well, no direct ducting (I'll be working on that)
Finally do you have any photos of the pad wear and rotors?
I'll post them shortly, but one is completely destroyed due to metal-to-metal contact
That maybe the case, I think I overheated them, that's more likely the case, however, I'm just surprised, I've been doing this for 6 years now and never experienced such behavior, there's always a first. I just placed an order for new set of rotors, I'm ordering another set of pads, but also adding direct ducting to the rotors.
When I say 'slam' these are the cases when going high-speed and coming to a 90* turn, that's how I've been taught "hard on brakes and gently release", that's what I've been doing for years.
Let me try and answer your questions.
Are you braking hard enough to engage ABS in the bigger brake zones?
Sometimes, not always -- I get to overshoot a turn especially in rain, this was a rainy day
How long are your sessions normally?
Previous event I had was at NJMP - Lightning total of 6 sessions each being around 17-20min however, this time around I've been on the track for about 45min
Do you drive hard the entire session or take a cool down lap or two in the middle or towards the end of the session?
Towards the end, this past track day was high-speed event
Are you struggling with fade?
Not really, in other cars I experienced it, never on the ISF yet
What tires and tire sizes?
Tires: R888 265x35x18 square setup
What track(s) do you frequent?
Mostly local and depends on configuration, Pocono Mega is a high-speed track which I attended last (150mph) speeds - 3.5 Mile
You mention brake ducting, are you already using ducting?
Whatever is on the ISF currently, just a jet coming out of the fender well, no direct ducting (I'll be working on that)
Finally do you have any photos of the pad wear and rotors?
I'll post them shortly, but one is completely destroyed due to metal-to-metal contact
It is without a doubt a heat related issue- the 265 R888s are capable of working the pads much harder than your typical street tires but *by far* the biggest cause I see here is the 45min sessions on this specific track. We know these pads work and wear well during a typical 15-20 minute session on the IS-F and this has been validated by others on here but clearly in your case they will start to overheat beyond that. My best guess is that almost all of the wear came in the last 10-20 minutes of the sessions... when the pads are too hot and wearing quickly but the tires are still nice and gummy, continuing to work the pads hard. I am almost positive the rear EBCs had gone off by this point as well, leaving the bulk of the work to be done by the fronts. Ducting will definitely help but the best way to help extend the pad life will be to take a cool down lap every five laps or so, especially if you're going to run longer than 20 minute sessions. If you want want to go 45 minutes straight without any breaks and the ducting isn't enough then we may need to look into some endurance race compounds to suit your needs a little better.
It is without a doubt a heat related issue- the 265 R888s are capable of working the pads much harder than your typical street tires but *by far* the biggest cause I see here is the 45min sessions on this specific track. We know these pads work and wear well during a typical 15-20 minute session on the IS-F and this has been validated by others on here but clearly in your case they will start to overheat beyond that. My best guess is that almost all of the wear came in the last 10-20 minutes of the sessions... when the pads are too hot and wearing quickly but the tires are still nice and gummy, continuing to work the pads hard. I am almost positive the rear EBCs had gone off by this point as well, leaving the bulk of the work to be done by the fronts. Ducting will definitely help but the best way to help extend the pad life will be to take a cool down lap every five laps or so, especially if you're going to run longer than 20 minute sessions. If you want want to go 45 minutes straight without any breaks and the ducting isn't enough then we may need to look into some endurance race compounds to suit your needs a little better.
-Matt M.
Agreed, when I came to this event, my pads were easily at half, pads were only once at the track before and it's my track car, so I don't drive it around, then first 45min in and they are gone.
I have not checked the rears yet, but those EBC's were like brand new entering the event, I hauled the car home and parked it, haven't had a chance to start my maintenance on it.
I replaced my front pads today...They lasted ~9K miles, including 8 track days.. I think I've gotten my money's worth out of them
BTW, I could barely fit the new pads in with my thicker slotted rotors.. In fact, I ended up going without the shim on the outside pad to make it fit.
I replaced my front pads today...They lasted ~9K miles, including 8 track days.. I think I've gotten my money's worth out of them
BTW, I could barely fit the new pads in with my thicker slotted rotors.. In fact, I ended up going without the shim on the outside pad to make it fit.
-Mike
That is some outstanding wear, Mike! The new pads are looking good
Originally Posted by bbong
Nice Mike, hopefully mine will do better this time around
I'm really curious to see how your next set does. I'm keeping my fingers crossed you'll have a better experience with this next set. How much rear pad do you have left and what compound?
That is some outstanding wear, Mike! The new pads are looking good
I'm really curious to see how your next set does. I'm keeping my fingers crossed you'll have a better experience with this next set. How much rear pad do you have left and what compound?
-Matt M.
The rear was EBC Yellow, they're still pretty good. I am waiting for parts and once they arrive I'll take off the wheels and change all rotors and pads, I'll take photos then.
Bumping this! We've got plenty of new inventory in stock and ready to ship. We have brought in a batch of both full thickness as well as custom (1mm shaved) pads for those running the slightly wider 2-piece rotors so please let us know what rotors you have when ordering!
09-20-16, 07:58 AM
