The perfect engine for today’s small sedans and crossovers?
11-28-22, 10:43 AM
#31
Lexus Champion
There's a little more nuance to it than this, but the simple math says if you can get 300hp out of a factory 3.5L NA V6, an engine of a similar design but half the displacement should give you somewhere in the neighborhood of 150hp. Let's be generous and say 180hp if you take advantage of the lower piston mass to make it rev out to 9k rpm or something like that, but then again that runs counter to the stated goals of the thread.
11-28-22, 10:48 AM
#32
Lexus Champion
You have completely mislead with your argument. There were no 300HP I4 turbos back then. There are today, so it is very reasonable to assume there were could be 400 small 1.8 turbo I6s today. Toyota has a 300HP 3 banger. so it can be done. but it is pointless, it would cost too much and would not be worth it.
Last edited by AMIRZA786; 11-28-22 at 10:51 AM.
11-28-22, 10:58 AM
#33
Lexus Fanatic
There's a little more nuance to it than this, but the simple math says if you can get 300hp out of a factory 3.5L NA V6, an engine of a similar design but half the displacement should give you somewhere in the neighborhood of 150hp. Let's be generous and say 180hp if you take advantage of the lower piston mass to make it rev out to 9k rpm or something like that, but then again that runs counter to the stated goals of the thread.
You have completely mislead with your argument. There were no 300HP I4 turbos back then. There are today, so it is very reasonable to assume there were could be 400 small 1.8 turbo I6s today. Toyota has a 300HP 3 banger. so it can be done. but it is pointless, it would cost too much and would not be worth it.
There is also the issue of size. A small I4 is much more compact than a small V6 or I6, so there are packaging issues to take into account as well.
Powertrain engineering is not magic, when you are dealing with a naturally aspirated engine there is only so much power you can get out of so much displacement. To get competitive power you would have to turbocharge it and/or electrify it.
That old Mazda probably did 0-60 in 15+ seconds.
Last edited by SW17LS; 11-28-22 at 11:02 AM.
11-28-22, 11:01 AM
#34
Lexus Fanatic
LOL, I do not "mislead". He said that engine was the perfect engine for todays small sedans and crossovers. You could achieve that with a TURBOCHARGED 1.8L V6 sure, but thats not what he's saying. He is saying that a small low powered naturally aspirated V6 would be preferable to a small turbo 4 cyl and I just completely disagree. Nobody wants to go back to 10+ second 0-60 times.
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11-28-22, 11:04 AM
#35
Lexus Champion
In this case the 6 would be more powerful if we are assuming same tech same displacement, more cylinders for a given displacement is always more power due to intake valve curtain area rules.
The best example of this if I might add is the ford 2.7 eco boost vs similar size 2.5L turbo engines. The V6 smacks them around
The best example of this if I might add is the ford 2.7 eco boost vs similar size 2.5L turbo engines. The V6 smacks them around
Last edited by Striker223; 11-28-22 at 11:09 AM.
11-28-22, 11:05 AM
#36
Lexus Champion
Not a NA 1.8. Totally impossible without taking the engine to limits that would make it completely unreliable, and unliveable
11-28-22, 11:06 AM
#37
Lexus Champion
I don't mean to bring EV's into this conversation, but one of the reasons I can't buy ICE anymore. I can't live with these tiny downsized turbocharged/hybridized engines. 3.0T or 3.5L NA and up, or I'm not interested. That 1.8 would put me to sleep. Disappointing times for ICE IMO
11-28-22, 11:06 AM
#38
Lexus Fanatic
I do not mislead. Even if we are talking about a 250 hp turbo 4 its going to feel much more powerful and more responsive than a small displacement NA V6. If vehicle engineers thought that type of engine would provide the power and the fuel economy that they were targeting then thats what we would have. Perhaps I might prefer this to a NA 4 cyl, but not a turbocharged one.
You can disagree with me but don't make an accusation towards me like "I mislead". Thats ridiculous.
11-28-22, 11:06 AM
#39
Lexus Champion
11-28-22, 11:07 AM
#40
Lexus Champion
Actually you can get 320HP out of an IS350 with an RR Racing tune, PPE headers and a bigger exhaust. The RR Racing tune brings the Redline up to 7200 RPM. PPE headers are not CARB compliant in California, so I was considering buying the tune, but it wasn't worth $600 just gain 14 hp
11-28-22, 11:07 AM
#41
Lexus Fanatic
11-28-22, 11:07 AM
#42
Lexus Champion
11-28-22, 11:10 AM
#43
Super Moderator
How? The 2.5L V6 (from the IS250) referenced in this thread as a smoothness guideline only makes 204 hp. How do you remove 30% of the displacement, keep the same or greater power output, without making it thrashy or adding forced induction?
11-28-22, 11:10 AM
#44
Lexus Champion
11-28-22, 11:11 AM
#45
Lexus Champion
Super reliable but they suck to drive unless you are willing to spin up to 5-7k at anytime you want to get moving.