Winter cars
11-21-22, 02:16 PM
#31
Lexus Champion
11-21-22, 02:28 PM
#32
Lexus Fanatic
11-21-22, 02:29 PM
#33
Lexus Champion
Ford recently paid out $1.7 billion in a lawsuit involving the F250 for the condition shown in that picture. It is not a random image.
https://nypost.com/2022/08/20/jury-s...ly-2014-crash/
https://nypost.com/2022/08/20/jury-s...ly-2014-crash/
11-21-22, 02:39 PM
#34
11-21-22, 02:43 PM
#35
Forum Administrator
iTrader: (2)
Let's keep this polite and on topic folks
11-21-22, 03:10 PM
#36
Lexus Fanatic
Like I said before, the fact that you see more SUVs stuck in the snow doesn't mean that they aren't better in the snow than a car, its because more SUVs are out on the road vs cars in a snowy situation, and people are idiots and they think their SUVs can do anything and they can't.
You would be amazed at the number of people who have gone through high-school/college, even with advanced-physics courses, and can't understand this very simple concept in the operation of a vehicle. The number of over-cocky SUV drivers who get themselves in trouble in the snow only attests to that. Plus, as Steve noted, a high center of gravity doesn't help handling either....snow or no snow.
11-21-22, 03:36 PM
#37
Lexus Champion
I'm surprised anyone would choose a giant high center of gravity truck over an AWD sedan with reasonable ground clearance. Way easier to pull out of a spin, much smaller to potentially maneuver out of trouble. And in general much more fun. Sure there are scenarios where being off the ground 12" is better but if there is that much snow you probably shouldn't bother going out even if your vehicle is invincible, most everyone else on the road will be a hazard to you.
And no you can't "go anywhere" in the F250 it is a terrible off roader.
And no you can't "go anywhere" in the F250 it is a terrible off roader.
11-21-22, 03:53 PM
#38
Lexus Fanatic
Yes. All else equal, 4WD or AWD will NOT make the vehicle handle any better or stop any quicker on slick surfaces. In general, it only makes it easier to start up from rest and/or accelerate at low speeds without spinning your wheels or getting stuck. A vehicle can respond to steering and brakes (with or without ABS) only to the limits of where the tires actually have traction, whether it is 2WD or AWD. AWD, of course, has the advantage in that each tire is contributing to the traction-load instead of just the front two or rear two.
You would be amazed at the number of people who have gone through high-school/college, even with advanced-physics courses, and can't understand this very simple concept in the operation of a vehicle. The number of over-cocky SUV drivers who get themselves in trouble in the snow only attests to that. Plus, as Steve noted, a high center of gravity doesn't help handling either....snow or no snow.
You would be amazed at the number of people who have gone through high-school/college, even with advanced-physics courses, and can't understand this very simple concept in the operation of a vehicle. The number of over-cocky SUV drivers who get themselves in trouble in the snow only attests to that. Plus, as Steve noted, a high center of gravity doesn't help handling either....snow or no snow.
I'm surprised anyone would choose a giant high center of gravity truck over an AWD sedan with reasonable ground clearance. Way easier to pull out of a spin, much smaller to potentially maneuver out of trouble. And in general much more fun. Sure there are scenarios where being off the ground 12" is better but if there is that much snow you probably shouldn't bother going out even if your vehicle is invincible, most everyone else on the road will be a hazard to you.
As for "you probably shouldnt go anywhere", I have driven in 10+ inches and snow many times in my life, and I don't even live anywhere where we get a lot of snow. When you travel in elevation you come into heavy snow without much warning, if someone has a vacation home or goes skiing for instance in Garrett County, MD you will encounter 10+ inches of snow on roadways regularly in the winter, and thats in MD. If you travel in even more mountainous areas, thats even more likely. Its also not just the depth of snow on a roadway, its the abilty to turn off of plowed roadways onto unplowed roadways and push through the packed snow berm left by the plow.
Also, some people have to go to work no matter what the weather is. Nurses, doctors, emergency personnel, the list goes on and on. Not everybody can just stay home. We have to go out in bad weather from time to time if we have a property that experiences some kind of emergency (frozen pipes, etc).
The reason why I would buy an SUV or truck if I routinely traveled in the snow vs an AWD sedan is for that very reason, if you encounter 6+ inches of snow unexpectedly while traveling you're going to be fine, in my AWD sedan I would not be.
And no you can't "go anywhere" in the F250 it is a terrible off roader.
11-21-22, 04:00 PM
#39
I'm surprised anyone would choose a giant high center of gravity truck over an AWD sedan with reasonable ground clearance. Way easier to pull out of a spin, much smaller to potentially maneuver out of trouble. And in general much more fun. Sure there are scenarios where being off the ground 12" is better but if there is that much snow you probably shouldn't bother going out even if your vehicle is invincible, most everyone else on the road will be a hazard to you.
And no you can't "go anywhere" in the F250 it is a terrible off roader.
And no you can't "go anywhere" in the F250 it is a terrible off roader.
It's also a gas guzzler, you forgot to mention that.
11-21-22, 04:08 PM
#40
Lexus Champion
Its because we don't take driving seriously in the US. We have basically zero driver training and its way too easy to get a drivers license.
Its because of ground clearance, and because of lockable differentials. Very few sedans have ground clearance over 6 inches, and if you are driving in 6+ inches of snow, you're not going to safely get anywhere. You also don't have lockable differentials for when going really gets tough so its hard to power through deeper snow or plowed berms, etc.
As for "you probably shouldnt go anywhere", I have driven in 10+ inches and snow many times in my life, and I don't even live anywhere where we get a lot of snow. When you travel in elevation you come into heavy snow without much warning, if someone has a vacation home or goes skiing for instance in Garrett County, MD you will encounter 10+ inches of snow on roadways regularly in the winter, and thats in MD. If you travel in even more mountainous areas, thats even more likely. Its also not just the depth of snow on a roadway, its the abilty to turn off of plowed roadways onto unplowed roadways and push through the packed snow berm left by the plow.
Also, some people have to go to work no matter what the weather is. Nurses, doctors, emergency personnel, the list goes on and on. Not everybody can just stay home. We have to go out in bad weather from time to time if we have a property that experiences some kind of emergency (frozen pipes, etc).
The reason why I would buy an SUV or truck if I routinely traveled in the snow vs an AWD sedan is for that very reason, if you encounter 6+ inches of snow unexpectedly while traveling you're going to be fine, in my AWD sedan I would not be.
You can go anywhere in basically any sort of snowstorm was my point. They use F250s to push plows.
Its because of ground clearance, and because of lockable differentials. Very few sedans have ground clearance over 6 inches, and if you are driving in 6+ inches of snow, you're not going to safely get anywhere. You also don't have lockable differentials for when going really gets tough so its hard to power through deeper snow or plowed berms, etc.
As for "you probably shouldnt go anywhere", I have driven in 10+ inches and snow many times in my life, and I don't even live anywhere where we get a lot of snow. When you travel in elevation you come into heavy snow without much warning, if someone has a vacation home or goes skiing for instance in Garrett County, MD you will encounter 10+ inches of snow on roadways regularly in the winter, and thats in MD. If you travel in even more mountainous areas, thats even more likely. Its also not just the depth of snow on a roadway, its the abilty to turn off of plowed roadways onto unplowed roadways and push through the packed snow berm left by the plow.
Also, some people have to go to work no matter what the weather is. Nurses, doctors, emergency personnel, the list goes on and on. Not everybody can just stay home. We have to go out in bad weather from time to time if we have a property that experiences some kind of emergency (frozen pipes, etc).
The reason why I would buy an SUV or truck if I routinely traveled in the snow vs an AWD sedan is for that very reason, if you encounter 6+ inches of snow unexpectedly while traveling you're going to be fine, in my AWD sedan I would not be.
You can go anywhere in basically any sort of snowstorm was my point. They use F250s to push plows.
11-21-22, 04:10 PM
#41
Lexus Fanatic
Both of my current daily drivers are my winter cars. In fact I just put on my winter wheels on my X7 because I got a flat in one of my summer tires this past weekend so I thought, might as well change over now since it is getting cold here.
My favorite winter car was my GX460 with the LTX tires, I felt completely comfortable in that in the winter and it handled the winter weather here very well.
Depends where you live, where you are I agree, where I live I disagree. For the small amount of snow we get here yearly my Conti DWS06 all seasons were a great all year tire that handled very well for the weather down here. Winter tires for any of my daily driver cars are overkill IMO. Are they better, yes, are they needed, no.
My favorite winter car was my GX460 with the LTX tires, I felt completely comfortable in that in the winter and it handled the winter weather here very well.
Depends where you live, where you are I agree, where I live I disagree. For the small amount of snow we get here yearly my Conti DWS06 all seasons were a great all year tire that handled very well for the weather down here. Winter tires for any of my daily driver cars are overkill IMO. Are they better, yes, are they needed, no.
snow tire do
Last edited by Toys4RJill; 11-21-22 at 04:14 PM.
11-21-22, 04:14 PM
#42
Lexus Fanatic
I guess I was referring that in a a big snow storm, store tires are superior. Wasn’t really meaning the justification based on location. For sure Maryland they are not justified. I could likely argue that in the GTA they are not needed either. But when I go to Buffalo and travel to Rochester 100% they are nice to have.
Great example, we were in Albany, NY one time for New Years back when we had the 2011 Grand Cherokee. That was a vehicle that was great in the snow, we left and drove though 8-10 inches of snow, they do a good job on their roads so the roads were snow covered but not deep. It was however 5 degrees farenheit, and it was like driving on grease, the allseason tires were just frozen solid and I just didnt get any grip, Thats a scenario where we really needed winter tires. With you traveling to Buffalo and Rochester and all, I would run winter tires too.
11-21-22, 05:07 PM
#43
Lexus Champion
Thread Starter
I'm surprised anyone would choose a giant high center of gravity truck over an AWD sedan with reasonable ground clearance. Way easier to pull out of a spin, much smaller to potentially maneuver out of trouble. And in general much more fun. Sure there are scenarios where being off the ground 12" is better but if there is that much snow you probably shouldn't bother going out even if your vehicle is invincible, most everyone else on the road will be a hazard to you.
And no you can't "go anywhere" in the F250 it is a terrible off roader.
And no you can't "go anywhere" in the F250 it is a terrible off roader.
11-21-22, 05:09 PM
#44
Lexus Champion
Thread Starter
Its because we don't take driving seriously in the US. We have basically zero driver training and its way too easy to get a drivers license.
Its because of ground clearance, and because of lockable differentials. Very few sedans have ground clearance over 6 inches, and if you are driving in 6+ inches of snow, you're not going to safely get anywhere. You also don't have lockable differentials for when going really gets tough so its hard to power through deeper snow or plowed berms, etc.
As for "you probably shouldnt go anywhere", I have driven in 10+ inches and snow many times in my life, and I don't even live anywhere where we get a lot of snow. When you travel in elevation you come into heavy snow without much warning, if someone has a vacation home or goes skiing for instance in Garrett County, MD you will encounter 10+ inches of snow on roadways regularly in the winter, and thats in MD. If you travel in even more mountainous areas, thats even more likely. Its also not just the depth of snow on a roadway, its the abilty to turn off of plowed roadways onto unplowed roadways and push through the packed snow berm left by the plow.
Also, some people have to go to work no matter what the weather is. Nurses, doctors, emergency personnel, the list goes on and on. Not everybody can just stay home. We have to go out in bad weather from time to time if we have a property that experiences some kind of emergency (frozen pipes, etc).
The reason why I would buy an SUV or truck if I routinely traveled in the snow vs an AWD sedan is for that very reason, if you encounter 6+ inches of snow unexpectedly while traveling you're going to be fine, in my AWD sedan I would not be.
You can go anywhere in basically any sort of snowstorm was my point. They use F250s to push plows.
Its because of ground clearance, and because of lockable differentials. Very few sedans have ground clearance over 6 inches, and if you are driving in 6+ inches of snow, you're not going to safely get anywhere. You also don't have lockable differentials for when going really gets tough so its hard to power through deeper snow or plowed berms, etc.
As for "you probably shouldnt go anywhere", I have driven in 10+ inches and snow many times in my life, and I don't even live anywhere where we get a lot of snow. When you travel in elevation you come into heavy snow without much warning, if someone has a vacation home or goes skiing for instance in Garrett County, MD you will encounter 10+ inches of snow on roadways regularly in the winter, and thats in MD. If you travel in even more mountainous areas, thats even more likely. Its also not just the depth of snow on a roadway, its the abilty to turn off of plowed roadways onto unplowed roadways and push through the packed snow berm left by the plow.
Also, some people have to go to work no matter what the weather is. Nurses, doctors, emergency personnel, the list goes on and on. Not everybody can just stay home. We have to go out in bad weather from time to time if we have a property that experiences some kind of emergency (frozen pipes, etc).
The reason why I would buy an SUV or truck if I routinely traveled in the snow vs an AWD sedan is for that very reason, if you encounter 6+ inches of snow unexpectedly while traveling you're going to be fine, in my AWD sedan I would not be.
You can go anywhere in basically any sort of snowstorm was my point. They use F250s to push plows.
Once again you typed out exactly what I was going to, doctors HAVE TO get to work. My dad always has a lockable gods full size truck for that, so do the other hospital directors.
6+ inches or berms are game over for cars.
11-21-22, 05:21 PM
#45
Lexus Champion