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Serious question, any one have an idea that if everyone has EVs, how taxing is it on the grid at off-peak hours? That’s probably what the real question is since, as noted above, most people charge at night.
You must have some idea since you're blaming electric cars for power outages.
Not totally. Read what I said. I said that EVs are (or will be) a significant part of the problem, but, obviously, other uses add to it as well.....such as industrial/commercial uses, heating and A/C, home use for TVs and electronics, etc...
But my point was (and I've said this for several years)...the more EVs are on the road, the moe they will demand from an already limited electric grid, and the more likely they are to lead to brownouts/blackouts, particularly if and when everybody is trying to recharge at once. I do agree with Fatherto1, though, that solar generation will help.
Serious question, any one have an idea that if everyone has EVs, how taxing is it on the grid at off-peak hours? That’s probably what the real question is since, as noted above, most people charge at night.
Honestly, the more power demand there is overnight, the better it is for the grid. Why? In general, power is provided by two types of plants: base load plants that run very efficiently at a steady state, but are expensive, difficult, or slow (or all 3) to adjust output; and peaking plants that cost way more to run, but are comparatively easy and quick to adjust when demand changes. Output of the base load plants is largely (but not completely) driven by the minimum constant load, which is essentially the overnight period. The additional demand during the day is largely satisfied by the peaking plants.
So if you increase demand overnight, you increase the amount of power that can be provided by the base load plants, which means that fewer peaking plants are needed and they may not have to swing their output as widely. Sure the mix of those plants needs to change, but the average cost to deliver a Megawatt goes down.
^
Another BIG issue for ppl on East coast is Hurricane season.
My neighborhood has ton of trees and power gets knocked out all the time. All my neighbors have generators. The last big storm knocked out power for 5days a few years back.
I guess these EV charging stations will need to have backup
plan if ppl can’t charge at home.
At the end of the day - the power grid for the most part is powered by coal or gas. The batteries require mining for rare earth materials which will cause huge amounts of pollution and environmental damage. New factories will need to be built to manufacture batteries. It will be Decades before we actually see a net benefit but the Air will be cleaner in California lol. The pollution will just occur in different part of the world.
So these morons enact a law forcing all new-vehicle buyers in the state to convert to full-EVs over the next dozen years, and then turn around and say please don't recharge them because we can't produce enough electric power when it's hot or cold?
And they were the first ones to laugh at the sensible persons who have been predicting for years that this would happen.
feel better? however, policy affecting what new cars can be bought in 2035 has NOTHING to do with their grid load struggles TODAY.
there are electrical demand challenges in a lot of places, including texas, parts of europe, etc., caused by many factors, climate, problematic transitions to renewables without adequate reliable 'backup' - it's hugely complex.
EVs did not cause the electric grid problems here but they have helped put an exclamation point on them. It is good to charge during the day when solar production is highest. Most people home charge off-peak (late night) as it is cheaper. EVs have time of charge settings, you know...
We are being asked to conserve between 4:00PM and 9:00PM. This includes AC, clothes dryers, oven, etc. A big problem here is the lack of home insulation due to mild weather. I focused on insulation and ceiling fans during a remodel. When I installed solar, I added a new roof with high insulation value. These improvements go a long way.
Of course this gives the EV haters clickbait opportunities galore. Many seem to be ignorant or disingenuous. Hard to say.
It will hit low 90's here in Los Gatos (hottest part of Silicon Valley) and 10* higher in the Central Valley. SF will see lower 80's. Capitola will be downright perfect.
But make no mistake, the elderly and sick who live in the hotter areas will suffer. This is no joke.
Not totally. Read what I said. I said that EVs are (or will be) a significant part of the problem, but, obviously, other uses add to it as well.....such as industrial/commercial uses, heating and A/C, home use for TVs and electronics, etc...
But my point was (and I've said this for several years)...the more EVs are on the road, the moe they will demand from an already limited electric grid, and the more likely they are to lead to brownouts/blackouts, particularly if and when everybody is trying to recharge at once. I do agree with Fatherto1, though, that solar generation will help.
If everyone right now were to drive a Model X:
This assumes no grid improvements, no stationary battery grid storage, no distributed grid support from EVs themselves (this is going to be massive). As you can see currently EVs are a tiny slice of overall load.
Watch this and then let us know if you still believe sensible people think the grid is going to collapse.
NV Energy Asks Customers to Conserve Electricity on Wednesday, September 8 and Thursday, September 9 between 5 p.m. and 8 p.m.
This conservation effort is aimed at offsetting energy supply issues caused by excessive heat in California and Nevada, gas supply and energy constraints, and access to market power.
While NV Energy is fully prepared to supply energy to its customers today and tomorrow through both our owned and contracted generation and market purchases, conservation ensures our electric grid is in the best position possible during periods of high energy demand.
We appreciate any small changes that can be made to reduce your energy use today. By conserving together, we will help prevent potential energy supply issues from impacting service reliability.
Avoid using large electrical appliances such as dishwashers, washing machines and electric clothes dryers
Adjust the thermostat to 78 degrees or higher to reduce the use of air conditioning during this time (barring any medical issues), and use ceiling fans to cool people and pets. Pre-cool your home prior to 5 p.m.
Keep the refrigerator and freezer closed as much as possible
Close window coverings to keep the heat out
Do not charge electric vehicles between 5 p.m. and 8 p.m.
Save Energy Business Tips:
Unplug appliances and turn off lights not in use
Delay turning on exterior lighting if possible
Adjust the thermostat to 78 degrees or higher (barring any medical issues) to reduce the use of air conditioning and use ceiling fans, if possible.
Pre-cool your facility prior to 5 p.m.
Defer or reduce all non-essential use of commercial and industrial equipment, such as boilers, exhaust fans, reproduction equipment, maintenance and repair equipment, dispensing machines, intercoms, cleaning equipment, circulating pumps and electric chargers.
Close window coverings to keep the heat out
Do not charge electric vehicles and equipment between 5 p.m. and 8 p.m.
... If everyone drove a model x, they would be broke. Have you seen the price for one of those?
Originally Posted by FatherTo1
Yep, it’s gonna get toasty over the next 10 days in Sacramento. At one point the forecast was calling for 112 degrees on Labor Day!
The Newsweek article is a little exaggerated. Officials are asking folks to reduce energy usage between 4pm-9pm to relieve stress on the grid, which is wise so we avoid issues like Texas ERCOT. Very few EV owners are charging their cars between 4pm-9pm as it is. Majority of grid consumption will be AC and other appliances.
Way too hot for me (the nighttime) Forget the day.
Originally Posted by mmarshall
So these morons.
California likes to sue their power companies as well
Originally Posted by bitkahuna
can't tesla issue a software update that disallows or restricts charging during daylight hours?
Sure they can. The government could mandate it as well. All kinds of wacky stuff
feel better? however, policy affecting what new cars can be bought in 2035 has NOTHING to do with their grid load struggles TODAY.
With all due respect, I beg to differ, at least from conditions as they are today.....and they don't seem to be getting any better. The Colorado River, which, through Hoover Dam, provides a lot of hydroelectric power for that region, is rapidly drying up from overuse. Lake Mead is at record low levels. Southwestern states are suing each other in court to see who gets what little water is left. Mass Wildfires are destroying a lot of the electric lines and grid-infrastructure. The tax base in California continues to shrink as people and businesses move out of the state to less-restrictive areas in Texas and the Southeast. In short, it is not a very healthy scenario, nor a lot of long-range confidence.
easy to criticize and call people morons though.
Well, again with all due respect, you have used the term once or twice yourself, in posting, to describe actions like this. I'm not breaking any new ice.
With all due respect, I beg to differ, at least from conditions as they are today.....and they don't seem to be getting any better. The Colorado River, which, through Hoover Dam, provides a lot of hydroelectric power for that region, is rapidly drying up from overuse. Lake Mead is at record low levels. Southwestern states are suing each other in court to see who gets what little water is left. Mass Wildfires are destroying a lot of the electric lines and grid-infrastructure. The tax base in California continues to shrink as people and businesses move out of the state to less-restrictive areas in Texas and the Southeast. In short, it is not a very healthy scenario, nor a lot of long-range confidence.
California has a budget surplus.
The state collected around 250 billion in tax revenue last year. The next highest was New York, at around 93 billion. Texas around 65 billion.
Reports of California's demise are greatly exaggerated.
09-01-22, 04:51 AM
If everyone drove a model x, they would be broke. Have you seen the price for one of those?
Forget the day.